Am a little confused about something...

[gibby]

OK, thanks Innerlight. Not sure about the claim of "record number of Christians" converting though.

[Sparkle1981]

ok - i seem to have opened up a can of worms here

[onesiphorus]

Dear Innerlight , the Jews are still awaiting what the apostles were asking for in Acts 1 and that is the Messiah promised them in the covenant God made with Abraham and with David where he will return to earth and" restore the land "to them and sit on the throne of david and herald in the millenial reign judging in righteousness with the 12 apostles sitting on 12 thrones as princes of the 12 tribes of Israel. this will happen following the 70th week of Daniel as prophecied .

[Innerlight]

So when is that due to happen? (Sorry for the questions, I know very little about Jewish beliefs)

[JIP]

Originally Posted by Lambsy

There are even Wahabi muslim clerics being converted by Jesus in dreams.

Who are Wahabi Muslim clerics?

[Lambsy]

I am not an evangelistic Christian. I will speak about Christ if I am asked but on the whole I find people do not respond well to be shouted at about Christ or press-ganged into church

Yeah, maybe the Apostles shouldn't have proclaimed the Gospel boldly, maybe they should have just kept it all to themselves. And only said something when asked.

Maybe the Apostles should have told the Jews that they were just fine as they were, and not enraged them with the truth.

Maybe Paul should not have argued for hours in the temple against the false teachings.

Would someone repremand Paul saying, " You shouldn't bash false beliefs "

We are all called to bash false beliefs, we would not be Christians if didn't enrage people with the truth.

What happened when Jesus told the Jews the truth, they wanted throw him off a cliff.

So if people don't want to throw you off a cliff, you aren't doing your job.

You have to be prepared to kick over the market stalls of error, and whip people with the truth.

False beliefs are not so sacred that you must not proclaim the truth, and stand back in some kind of nice tolerance of error.

You are not doing a muslim a favor by not pointing the error in his beliefs, and not proclaiming the Gospel.

Paul was in prison in chains, and was flayed with whips on account of the Gospel.
Would you have visited him and said " You are a Christian and you shouldn't have bashed peoples beliefs, because thats why you are in prison now, and I hope you have learned your lesson. "

In the same breath that you proclaim the truth, you are also telling them how wrong their beliefs are, this is unavoidable.

We are not called to be nice, we are called to love, and love demands that we tell the truth, and show them the error of their beliefs. If you don't do this, then you do not love, but that you would rather be nice.

And the road to hell is paved with nice intentions.

It is not a child of light that refuses to let his light shine before men. The light must win at the expense of the darkness. And people that live darkness must see the great light of Christ through us.

Yes we are in the business of light, and we flog and scorch the darkness of error where ever we go.

[JIP]

The truth is often difficult to digest. I agree that you may have to take it with a "pinch of salt". But the way you propose Lambsy, I guess we have to take a "bag full of salt". You don't seem to leave anything for divine intervention. We should not depend all on man's Works but leave them to Divine Grace.

And by the way for a person who has being practicing truth continually for a decent period of time, he/she will surely have a different perspective.

Your attempts to portray all belief other than the Catholic doctrine as false is way out Lambsy. But one thing you are on target, we must put out our necks and speak out against false beliefs, but within the truth written in the 66 books of the bible.

[onesiphorus]

Yes Lambsy I certainly agree that people who live in darkness need to see the light

[Butterfly]

Perhaps it's more a case of ' how ' it is proclaimed rather than ' if it should be '
The Apostles did what they had to at the time, they were following the lead of the Holy Spirit- sometimes he prompts a direct approach, sometimes he directs coming alongside someone- both are good- but on;y if it is prompting from the Spririt. What I have found is that , sometimes , people respond without prompting and almost throw scripture and Christ at a person. Which hits like a ton of bricks and achieves nothing.
It strikes me that the Holy Spirit /God/Jesus knows far more about the people we meet than we do, and know exactly what they need to hear- so it seems logical to seek his will and guidence and prompting. I wonder how many people are turned away because we simply preach the Good news in the wrong way. ( by the way this is a general observation it is not aimed at what anyone has directly said about there own methods of evangelism. )

Butterfly

[Lambsy]

Originally Posted by JIP

Who are Wahabi Muslim clerics?

These are the guys that believe every word of the koran littorally, that is " kill the infidel where ever you find him ". And they do, and not just them but many different sects of islam.

Islam sees itself as having a manifest destiny to totally dominate the world.

They see the world in two camps Dar al islam House of submission to allah. And Dar al Harb House of war with islam. We are infidels in the house of war, and must be ultimately brought into submission to islam under the heal of sharia law. Islam is at permanent war with those outside islam.

They have Dar al Sulh, when muslims are a minority community, where they temporarily adopt a peaceful attitude in order to decieve their host nation. But once they gather numbers that nation becomes Dar al Harb, a place of war against infidels, until that nation is brought under the rule of islam.

Islam is not a religion of peace or tolerance, anyone who has studied islam and islamic history or sees what islam is doing today, knows this.

People who say that islam is a peaceful religion are ignorant, or have their head in the sand.

There was a muslim cleric and professor in Egypt who converted to christianity, he was bashed, tortured and thrown in prison. He was threatened with death, and his family disowned him.
When he escaped to America, and heard a speech by a muslim who was saying how peaceful and tolerant islam is.
He ex Egyptian cleric was spotted in the crowd, and was hurriedly invited on stage because his work was well known, and was called to speak.

They didn't realize he was a convert to Christianity, and was tortured, imprisoned, and exiled from his country, because he had become a Christian.
He told them all straight that islam is not a peaceful or tolerant religion, and he should know, he was a high ranking islamic scholar and was tortured and imprisoned for becoming a christian. This only happened 5 years ago, but this happens all the time.
"If islam is a peaceful religion, why are converts to christianity killed, imprisoned, stoned and tortured around the islamic world, and all state sanctioned by islamic nations."

People need to wake up, and pull their heads out.