A Study in Jude

[whirlwind]

Jude 4-5 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

Certain men crept in unawares. These are the tares.

Matthew 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

Before of old ordained to this condemnation. From the first age, "before of old," these ungodly men, the tares, were ordained to fulfil their role in this flesh life just as He has ordained His prophets......

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Denying the only Lord God. How is He denied? They come pretending to be of God (have a form of godliness), but somehow they deny the Lord.....

2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

We're told that they are not only among the multitudes but...they are among us!

1 John 4:1-3 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

These false prophets/false teachers/tares deny the power. Do they deny that Jesus came in the flesh, in a flesh body? Of course not for....what believer would that deceive? Rather it is that they deny He comes in our flesh! The power, the Holy Spirit, abides IN us, dwells IN us, walks IN us....IN our flesh.

Jude 6-7 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Above we were shown the tares, ordained to this role because of their previous actions in the first age. They are flesh...born of woman. Here we are taught of the fallen angels who are "under darkness," because of their actions in this age. They chose to by-pass God's plan of salvation where all souls must be born of woman to pass through this age determining which Rock they would stand upon.

Deuteronomy 32:31 For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges.

Instead, the angels "left their own habitation." They mixed flesh and spirit...they produced offspring which were the Geber...Giants.

Genesis 6:2,4 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. (4) There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

For that reason God flooded the earth and placed the fallen angels "in everlasting chains under darkness," the "darkness" referring to Satan. They are spiritually chained to him to do his will and they have no recourse. They are condemned souls.

Jude 9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

The body of Moses. I wonder if this is speaking of the law? Is that the body, the Torah?

Jude 12-13 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

These tares and fallen angels are spots - men who morally corrupt your charity/goodwill. They are with us as we learn, teach, pray, worship for they "feast with you." The tares/transgressors shall be "plucked up by the roots."

Proverbs 2:22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.

They are the "raging waves of the sea" - wild men, men of the sea...men of Satan's kingdom of unbelievers. They are the "before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men." With the tares are the Wandering Stars - fallen angels bound to Satan to do his bidding.

[canny]

Jude does not appear to be a theologian, but stating some facts,,, I do not think there is any deep rooted meaning, other than follow grace or ya messing it up.. just MO

They did talk a bit weird in those days

[Jay Dub]

Jude 1:6-7 (New International Version)
6And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Above we were shown the tares, ordained to this role because of their previous actions in the first age. They are flesh...born of woman. Here we are taught of the fallen angels who are "under darkness," because of their actions in this age. They chose to by-pass God's plan of salvation where all souls must be born of woman to pass through this age determining which Rock they would stand upon.

I am a little confused as to what your beliefs are.

Because of their previous actions in the first age??

They are flesh...born of woman??

this age determining which Rock they would stand upon.They chose to by-pass God's plan of salvation where all souls must be born of woman to pass through

The NiV seems to disagree, but even using the King James it would seem you are adding to what is not there
Could you please take it a little slower and maybe one point at a time. I would like to know how you came to these conclusions

[whirlwind]

Jude 1:6-7 (New International Version)
6And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

WW -

Above we were shown the tares, ordained to this role because of their previous actions in the first age. They are flesh...born of woman. Here we are taught of the fallen angels who are "under darkness," because of their actions in this age. They chose to by-pass God's plan of salvation where all souls must be born of woman to pass through this age determining which Rock they would stand upon.

I am a little confused as to what your beliefs are.

The NiV seems to disagree, but even using the King James it would seem you are adding to what is not there.

In this particular case there isn't a great deal of difference in the KJV and NIV.....

KJV
Jude 6-7 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

As I see it, Jude is saying that the angels left their "own habitation," which is where all good angels were to remain and....they paid a price for that rebellion......everlasting chains. Why do you see this as a disagreement in the two versions or...is that what you're asking?


Your questions....

Because of their previous actions in the first age??

There was a previous age just as there will be an age following this one. We are the same soul/spirit we were then, now encased in a flesh body, upon physical death our same soul/spirit we have always been steps out of our flesh body. It goes back to dust while we go to our Father.

Ecclesiastes 12:6-7 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

There are Scriptures telling us of the previous age...some accept them but others don't. Please tell me if you are interested. But, what we did in that first age determines why we are called, chosen, justified, etc. in this age. It also determines why the tares are....the tares. Consider that when we are first introduced to Satan in the garden....he is already a fallen angel. When did that happen?

They are flesh...born of woman?? This age determining which Rock they would stand upon.They chose to by-pass God's plan of salvation where all souls must be born of woman to pass through?

All souls are to pass through this life, this flesh age, to be proven. To see who we chose. The fallen angels weren't born...they by-passed that so now, they are under darkness.

Deuteronomy 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

[Jay Dub]

Jude 1:6-7 (New International Version)
6And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

This is a picture of imprisonment

Above we were shown the tares, ordained to this role because of their previous actions in the first age. They are flesh...born of woman. Here we are taught of the fallen angels who are "under darkness," because of their actions in this age. They chose to by-pass God's plan of salvation where all souls must be born of woman to pass through this age determining which Rock they would stand upon.

Please explain to me this quote

Who are these in the first age?? men? angels? fallen angels? Are you saying, Fallen angels need to be born of women so they can choose Jesus, to receive salvation?

[whirlwind]

Jude 1:6-7 (New International Version)
6And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

This is a picture of imprisonment

Who is Light? Who is Darkness? We are servants of the Light. The fallen angels are prisoners of the Darkness.

Please explain to me this quote

Who are these in the first age?? men? angels? fallen angels?

We were all in the first age...just as we will all be in the next age. Satan rebelled in the first age causing God to destroy it all....He began again with this age in which our same souls are born into flesh bodies. We were spiritual beings/angels in the first age...just as we will be in the next age. We are the same soul in all three but encased in a different body.

1 Corinthians 15:39-41 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

Are you saying, Fallen angels need to be born of women so they can choose Jesus, to receive salvation?

No, I'm saying they, as fallen angels, gave up their opportunity to receive salvation. They decided to come to earth in their spiritual form/body instead of being born into flesh. The result...they are forever chained to darkness. They have already been condemned. Not yet destroyed but nevertheless...condemned to death. God's plan is for all souls to be born and pass through this flesh life.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

All men that go to heaven have to come "down from heaven." They have to be born. Even our Savior followed this path to show us.


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[Jay Dub]

We were all in the first age...just as we will all be in the next age. Satan rebelled in the first age causing God to destroy it all...He began again with this age in which our same souls are born into flesh .bodies. We were spiritual beings/angels in the first age...just as we will be in the next age. We are the same soul in all three but encased in a different body.

We were all in the first age

Satan rebelled in the first age causing God to destroy it all...He began again with this age in which our
same souls are born into flesh .bodies

We were spiritual beings/angels in the first age...just as we will be in the next age.

Where do you see this in scripture. OK there is scriptural proof of Satan rebelling, but where in scripture do you see that we were part of a previous age?
Where in scripture do you see, that we were previously angels?

No, I'm saying they, as fallen angels, gave up their opportunity to receive salvation. They decided to come to earth in their spiritual form/body instead of being born into flesh. The result...they are forever chained to darkness. They have already been condemned. Not yet destroyed but nevertheless...condemned to death. God's plan is for all souls to be born and pass through this flesh life

.

Your saying all of us have lived before with spiritual bodies. Satan rebelled causing God to destroy that age and all of us with it. We were given another chance for our salvation by being born in the flesh and in the flesh we could earn our salvation. Those who refused came here in the spirit, becoming fallen Angels and causing God to destroy this world in a flood, all but seven


Have I got that right now?

[whirlwind]

Where do you see this in scripture. OK there is scriptural proof of Satan rebelling, but where in scripture do you see that we were part of a previous age?
Where in scripture do you see, that we were previously angels?

.

Your saying all of us have lived before with spiritual bodies. Satan rebelled causing God to destroy that age and all of us with it. We were given another chance for our salvation by being born in the flesh and in the flesh we could earn our salvation. Those who refused came here in the spirit, becoming fallen Angels and causing God to destroy this world in a flood, all but seven


Have I got that right now?

Yes...you have that right now, except for two things. God didn't destroy us for we are the same soul/spirit we were then and that we shall be in the next age. He destroyed that world age and that destruction, in Greek, is the katalbole. In this age God again flooded (maybe the entire earth or maybe that area of the earth where the giants were) except for the (8) of Noah and his family and....the pairs of flesh on board with them.

Genesis 7:15-16 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life. And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.

All races of mankind didn't come from Noah anymore than they all came from Adam and Eve. They were created on the sixth day...before the formation of Adam....and two of each race (all flesh with the breath of life) was saved on the ark with Noah and his family. It is written....

1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Eight souls were saved...but with those eight souls there was "flesh" aboard....male and female of all flesh with the breath of life.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The Bible is about Jesus and His family and how they affected the world. The Bible mentions others as they come in contact with Israel but it is only about His Adamic line. It is His-story, His history...not mankinds. Noah was specificially written about but He also tells us that there were others, not in this family, that were with him.


I'll try to address the rest of your questions later today.


Editing in....I just posted "Angelic Beings are Us," in answer to your first question.


Editing again....I also posted "The Three Earth Ages" which may answer your questions about the previous age.

[Jay Dub]

All races of mankind didn't come from Noah anymore than they all came from Adam and Eve. They were created on the sixth day...before the formation of Adam....and two of each race (all flesh with the breath of life) was saved on the ark with Noah and his family. It is written....

1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Eight souls were saved...but with those eight souls there was "flesh" aboard....male and female of all flesh with the breath of life.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The Bible is about Jesus and His family and how they affected the world. The Bible mentions others as they come in contact with Israel but it is only about His Adamic line. It is His-story, His history...not mankinds. Noah was specificially written about but He also tells us that there were others, not in this family, that were with him

God created Adam and Eve, we all came from them , so yes we are all part of his family his history. We are all part of the "Adamic line"

The bible paints a clear picture, it is so easy a child can understand it.

Gen 3:20 Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living.

Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned-

If God created other men why did they die? What was there sin that they deserve death. No. we are all related to Adam and is why we inherit our sin nature. Sin came into the world through one man, Adam

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They were created on the sixth day...before the formation of Adam

Yet the Word tells us
1Cr 15:45 So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

[whirlwind]

God created Adam and Eve, we all came from them , so yes we are all part of his family his history. We are all part of the "Adamic line"

The bible paints a clear picture, it is so easy a child can understand it.

1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

It is written to be understood on many levels. He feeds us at points in our lives when we are able to understand the deeper truths. This is one of those.

John 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

1 Corinthians 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Gen 3:20 Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living.

And she is. We are all spiritually alive or spiritually dead. There is no in-between. She began the line that led to the Savior. All that are spiritually alive are of His family, whether by lineage or adoption...she is our mother if we live in Christ.

Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned-

If God created other men why did they die? What was there sin that they deserve death. No. we are all related to Adam and is why we inherit our sin nature. Sin came into the world through one man, Adam.

All men physically die, as written in [Heb. 9:27]...."it is appointed unto men once to die." Adam had nothing to do with that. Flesh is flesh and it is corruptible. The "death through sin" is spiritual death...that of our souls. All men sin, all men have always sinned, before and after Adam but...was it considered sin unto death before Adam? Adam was formed to "till the ground." Bring words of truth to all men. When we hear that truth and still sin then...it is counted as sin.

Romans 2:9-11 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God.

2:12-15 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.)

To me, that tells us that we are all are judged on our actions in this life. If they're evil...whether or not we know of the law, then...we pay the price. If we do well, even if we don't know of the law, then we are judged on that goodness. "Glory, honor and peace" to good men.


So where we read, "Sin came into the world through one man, Adam," why did it? How did it?

John 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

We all sin yet if we are blind to it being a sin then we "have no sin." It is when we understand, that it is counted as a sin. Adam and his family were entrusted with the Word of the Lord. When the Word is seen/heard/understood then we are no longer blind. Through Adam came sin, the knowledge of sin, into the world.

WW -
They were created on the sixth day...before the formation of Adam

JD -
Yet the Word tells us
1Cr 15:45 So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

Adam was the first man in the line to Christ. In Hebrew the difference shown is...Adam is "The Man Adam," eth Ha-addam (with the article and particle.) He is a specific man...apart from mankind, which is addam (with no article). The "man" created on day six is "addam - meaning mankind" while the man formed after the seventh day is "eth Ha-addam - The certain man Adam." The man through whom the Savior would come.


All races didn't come from one man. Adam's children didn't marry brothers and sisters. Cain married and built a city....who lived in the city?


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