The Fatherless and the Widows

[eddybear]

I think it's a mistake to over-spiritualise passages, and see things in them that aren't there.

When James talks about orphans and widows in this passage, he means it literally. Of course, I'm not denying the importance of taking the gospel to those who do not know God as Father - there are plenty of other passages in scripture that say that - but that isn't what this particular passage is about. James is emphasising the need for practical help to those in need.

[whirlwind]

I think it's a mistake to over-spiritualise passages, and see things in them that aren't there.

When James talks about orphans and widows in this passage, he means it literally. Of course, I'm not denying the importance of taking the gospel to those who do not know God as Father - there are plenty of other passages in scripture that say that - but that isn't what this particular passage is about. James is emphasising the need for practical help to those in need.

If we cannot yet hear does it mean the sound wasn't made? If we cannot yet see does it mean that nothing is there?

[canny]

I had a bit of a ponder, and I am actually wondering why God would single out widows and fatherless,, when you think of all the deprived people of the world,, why those two ? What Whirlwind is pondering is making some sense to me.

[Lily]

Two....We are to "visit the fatherless and widows." We could certainly take this literally and help all orphans and widows but this is speaking of the fatherless as those being without The Father guiding them. And the widows are those without Christ for to them He is dead.

Hi there Whirlwind. Some very deep thinking going on there. I don't see any evidence of you changing Scripture, you have just put a different thought pattern on it. Thankyou, I shall ponder this and get back to you

James is emphasising the need for practical help to those in need.

But as Canny has pointed out Eddy, any reason why these were singled out ?

[Galaen]

Perhaps the reason that widows and orphans were singled out was because in those days you needed a man to look after you - it is so easy to read scripture today and forget what things were like when it was written. It was the men who provided in those days and neither widows or orphans had that man in their life to provide so unless someone else stepped in to help them they would have perished. When seen in this light they were the most needy in the community. When we open out hearts truly to God he will show us where we need to be helping and in what way. I understand that folk like to debate theology but we should always keep our eyes on God (there are many other ways He speaks to us besides scripture) and what he is actually saying to us and the best way to do this (IMO) is to build our relationship with Him rather than debating between each other - debating can be good and can bring out many things but we must always keep our eyes and hearts firmly fixed on Father, Son and Holy Spirit because in that relationship we have everything we could every possibly need.

[canny]

I think you are preaching to the converted here Galaen lol,,, we know we should focus, but this is a forum and therefore discussions do take place.

I see your point about the times they lived in, but what about unmarried women, some must have erm,,, lets say a mental disorder or physical disabilities and were not marriageable, because ya wife had to be able to do alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll lll those things in Proverbs 31.... (teasing a bit lol ) ,,, that is why I asked about those particular two mentioned.

[Lily]

I understand that folk like to debate theology but we should always keep our eyes on God (there are many other ways He speaks to us besides scripture) and what he is actually saying to us and the best way to do this (IMO) is to build our relationship with Him rather than debating between each other

Apart from the fact that that's what forums are for, what does Scripture say on the matter ?

Proverbs 25:9

" Debate thy cause with thy neighbour himself; and discover not a secret to another "


2 Timothy 3:16

" All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness "

2 Timothy 4:2

" Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine "

1 John 4:1

" Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world "

1 Thessalonians 5:21

" Prove all things; hold fast that which is good "

[Lily]

because ya wife had to be able to do alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll lll those things

Have things changed then ?