The Holy Spirit Cannot Be In the Worship Place

[Lily]

But. If I go to that place along with many others and the Holy Spirit is in me, then does He not come with me. ?

Not laughing at you Canny, just giggling away because I SO love that reasoning.

[canny]

Not laughing at you Canny, just giggling away because I SO love that reasoning.

Oh dear,,,

[Pariah]

I am not sure what you mean, I understand your reference that the Holy Spirit is not in any particular place. ie. " In the Worship Place "

But. If I go to that place along with many others and the Holy Spirit is in me, then does He not come with me. ?

1 John 4:4

That is the difference.

If you can imagine a medium going to the worship service and calling forth the "spirit" while others are calling forth the Holy Spirit: how will we know Him? Jesus said we will know the Holy Spirit by Him dwelling in us only.

John 14:16-17

So there is no calling forth the Holy Spirit when He is already in us in according to our faith.

We cannot get closer to God than He is already by Him being in us.

That is why all eyes are to be on Jesus in the worship place: 1 Corinthians 2:2 & John 5:22-23

To learn of Him by the scriptures as we are to come to Him John 5:39-40

[Lily]

Oh dear,,,

no oh dear. It was a very good question. Just loved the quaintness of it

[Pariah]

But I have never taken my eyes off of Jesus. In my worship it includes a communion with the Father, a communion with Jesus, and a communion with the Holy Spirit.

The definition of communion is to be like-minded so to be like-minded as in having the communion of the Holy Spirit is John 15:26-27 & John 16:13-14

You spreading that word around to all Persons of the Trinity is nothing short but blurring the lines for what the role of the Holy Spirit is sent to dwell in us to do and to lead us to do.

Several times you have alluded to the fact that mediums and american indians call on spirits and make it a statement that if we call on the Holy Spirit that we would be deceived and that we would become destroyed by this. Why is it that your concept of the Gospel and the Holy Spirit is one that induces fear. Have you not read this

2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Key gist of the phrase here is "what He hath given us". That means one does not act like we have not received Him yet for that would be a false witness.

Have you read this? 1 John 3:22-24 & 1 John 4:1-6 Are you saying throw out discernment and caution to the wind?

They that speak as the world speak... should not be found in the assembly.

The Holy Spirit in my life testifies that Jesus is the Christ and He came in the flesh.

1 John 4:2 has to be take in context with 1 John 4:3 for us to know the meaning of the whole theme of 1 John Book and that is defending the faith as this examination warrants this: 2 Corinthians 13:5

Even when manifestations are given by the indwelling Holy Spirit: it is to give this report: 1 Corinthians 14:24-25 Manifestations are not to imply by signs and wonders that the Holy Spirit is in the place where the assembly gather.

Yet on every post about the Holy Spirit you introduce fear. I wonder about the doctrinal influences you have had.

How about this one? Decide this day Whom you will serve: the Lord Jesus Christ or something else in His name?

Your concept of the trinity is quite limited and you can see that in this statement

Pariah wrote
What you seemed to miss is that you are exalting the name of the Trinity above the name of Jesus Christ.

The name of the Trinity is God and we are commanded to exalt and to worship the Lord God. You can not separate the Holy Spirit from the Lord God because He is as much God as Jesus or the Father. So then all worship of God will include the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit is God. Do you not worship God? If so then you are worshipping the Holy Spirit also.

There is a difference between worshipping God as God and singularly worshipping the Holy Spirit. Even though you say that worshipping the Holy Spirit only would be wrong, but yet you fail to acknowledge the slippery slope it brings... how more and more, Jesus is pushed in the limelight.

How is it that when discerning movements of the Spirit where the format is the same by calling forth the same Holy Spirit in the worship place, believers can say that one movement of the spirit is not of God but the other one was?

When God the Father provided only one way to come to Him and that is through the Son: why was the Holy Spirit left out? John 14:6

When Jesus declared that God the Father can only be honoured through the Son: why was the Holy Spirit left out? John 5:22-23 Do note that standard for judgment.

Why was Jesus declared as the only door to go to in order to come to the Father? John 10:1 John 10:7-9

When Jesus said that the Father is glorified through the Son: why was the Holy Spirit left out? John 13:31-32 & John 17:1-5

Why is the role pf the Holy Spirit given where he is not to speak of himself? Why is the role of the Holy Spirit sent to glorify the Son? John 16:13-15

Look at how not to witness and how to bear a true witness: John 7:18-19

So then how can the name of Jesus be "above" every other name if the name of the Holy Spirit is up there with His?

How can having communion of the Holy Spirit to be likeminded in Christ ignore this call to mind in believers? Philippians 2:5-11

In the Gospel of Matthew 28:19 we are given this command

You can see the scripture giving equal respect to each of the persons of the Trinity and the name of that Trinity is the Lord God.

Is that "respect" carried out? Strangely enough.. after the Four Gospel, water baptism in Jesus' name only was mentioned.

So what gives way here? The name of Jesus over the names of the Trinity? Yep.

We are to be witnesses of Jesus Christ. That is Whom the Holy Spirit bear witness of also. That is Whom scriptures bears witness of also.

Jehovah's witnesses has to cease to be witnesses of Jesus Christ.

Those in the world seeking to be witnesses of the "spirit" has to cease to be witnesses of Jesus Christ in having that relationship with God the Father.

It is not fear that I am sharing here, but respecting the will of the Father.

Do we revere the name of Jesus as the Holy Spirit in us does, or do we take off after the rudiment in the world and honour, worship, and glorify the Holy Spirit where scriptures does not instruct us to do?

[Richard_1]

Pariah wrote

You spreading that word around to all Persons of the Trinity is nothing short but blurring the lines for what the role of the Holy Spirit is sent to dwell in us to do and to lead us to do.

I am not spreading the word or blurring the lines. If you were to talk to me you would hear nothing but Jesus Christ from my lips. The key scripture I live by is 1 Corinthians 2:2

For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

This is what the Holy Spirit that dwells in me testifies of. Yet you determine that because I have a relationship with the Holy Spirit that does not fit you doctrinal determination that I am spreading lies

Pariah wrote
You spreading that word around to all Persons of the Trinity is nothing short but blurring the lines for what the role of the Holy Spirit is sent to dwell in us to do and to lead us to do.

You also bring up a doctrinal statement again about baptism that sounds so familiar

Pariah wrote
Strangely enough.. after the Four Gospel, water baptism in Jesus' name only was mentioned.[/color]

This is quite similar to the Church of Christ and oneness Pentecostals beliefs and each of these has a confusion about the trinity.

Pariah wrote

Key gist of the phrase here is "what He hath given us". That means one does not act like we have not received Him yet for that would be a false witness.

I have never spoken about whether we have received the Holy Spirit or not yet you have judged me as an offender and a false witness. It makes me wonder why you are so adamant and have such a judgment in this matter.

Pariah wrote

They that speak as the world speak... should not be found in the assembly.

So are you saying that I should be thrown out of the assembly because I have the relationship I do with the Holy Spirit? So are you saying that my relationship with the Holy Spirit is a relationship that is of the world? Is it not true that the world can not have a relationship with the Holy Spirit. So then I guess you are saying that I do not have a relationship with God then because I see the Holy Spirit as God and worthy of worship as God.

I wrote

Yet on every post about the Holy Spirit you introduce fear. I wonder about the doctrinal influences you have had.

You replied

How about this one? Decide this day Whom you will serve: the Lord Jesus Christ or something else in His name?

This is incorrect because the scripture was talking about the “Lord your God (Elohim)” this statement was made by Joshua in Joshua 24:15 and it referred to the Lord (Yahovah) God (Elohim). You need to notice that Joshua did not understand the concept of Jesus and that Joshua understood that the name of Elohim was plural in context. So the scripture was not saying that we should only worship Jesus but was saying that we should worship the Lord our God which is a trinity.

Pariah wrote

There is a difference between worshipping God as God and singularly worshipping the Holy Spirit.

I have never said to worship the Holy Spirit singularly. I have always said that the worship of the Holy Spirit was part of the worship of the One God because the Holy Spirit is God. Why do you have a hard time seeing the Holy Spirit as God?

[Pariah]

I am not spreading the word or blurring the lines. If you were to talk to me you would hear nothing but Jesus Christ from my lips. The key scripture I live by is 1 Corinthians 2:2

This is what the Holy Spirit that dwells in me testifies of. Yet you determine that because I have a relationship with the Holy Spirit that does not fit you doctrinal determination that I am spreading lies

Let's not go there. I am addressing the issue: The Holy Spirit cannot be in the worship place to be worshipped so we can discern what is in the world.

You also bring up a doctrinal statement again about baptism that sounds so familiar

Pariah wrote
You spreading that word around to all Persons of the Trinity is nothing short but blurring the lines for what the role of the Holy Spirit is sent to dwell in us to do and to lead us to do.

Pariah wrote
Strangely enough.. after the Four Gospel, water baptism in Jesus' name only was mentioned

This is quite similar to the Church of Christ and oneness Pentecostals beliefs and each of these has a confusion about the trinity.

Towards the last point of the quote above: Feel free to quote a verse after the Four Gospels where they baptised the way He instructed them to of the Trinity. All I see is Jesus' name.

Towards the first point of the quote above: I was referring to your using Matthew 28:19 of the baptismal formula as a basis for worshipping the Trinity in worship as if justified for including the Holy Spirit in that worship. That is what I call as using that word to blur the lines of the role of the Holy Spirit to include Him in the worship place by spreading that word of Matthew 28:19 to also include worship of all the Persons of the Trinity. That is not the same thing, and scriptures has been given to show the Holy Spirit being absent in regards to worship and glory because the Holy Spirit seeks to glorify the Son.

Pariah wrote
Quote:
Key gist of the phrase here is "what He hath given us". That means one does not act like we have not received Him yet for that would be a false witness.

I have never spoken about whether we have received the Holy Spirit or not yet you have judged me as an offender and a false witness. It makes me wonder why you are so adamant and have such a judgment in this matter.

Yes, you did posted as such.

Several times you have alluded to the fact that mediums and american indians call on spirits and make it a statement that if we call on the Holy Spirit that we would be deceived and that we would become destroyed by this. Why is it that your concept of the Gospel and the Holy Spirit is one that induces fear. Have you not read this

2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

If you have received the Holy Spirit, then why would you call on Him? Why would anyone call for Him to come if He is already in us as promised?

You cannot do both. If you are a pastor at the pulpit and the congregation and the elders and the deacons are all looking for you, even though you tell them right over the mircophone loud for everyone to hear that you are right here at the pulpit, and they acknowledge you but still going about looking for you, telling everyone to call out for you, what do you call that? A false witness of you. Why did you think they were emphasizing this as an examination of our faith? 2 Corinthians 13:5 1 John 4:4-6

So are you saying that I should be thrown out of the assembly because I have the relationship I do with the Holy Spirit?

The Holy Spirit in you is pointing you to have that relationship with God through Jesus Christ. Why do you think Jesus Christ is called the Bridegroom? Intimacy with God.

[QUOTE] So are you saying that my relationship with the Holy Spirit is a relationship that is of the world?[?QUOTE]

If you point to the Holy Spirit, address the Holy Spirit, make offers to come to the Holy Spirit as if He is a door to God as well... then tell me how those that God would call out from the spirit realm to a personal relationship with Him through the Son can leave out their practises in relating to God "spirit wise"? How can they repent of the rudiment found in the world if christians do the same thing? Is it any wonder why in these latter days, the call is to narrow the way back to Jesus? Luke 13:24-30

Is it not true that the world can not have a relationship with the Holy Spirit.

Because they receive Him not for they see Him not, nor knoweth Him; but you are supposed to know Him because He dwellleth in you and shall be in you, abiding forever. John 14:16-17 How is it that those that call for the Holy Spirit to come can see this comings and goings? How come mediums in seyances and American Indians receive other spirits by seeing them, and yet they are not received as the encounters must be enacted again and again.

So then I guess you are saying that I do not have a relationship with God then because I see the Holy Spirit as God and worthy of worship as God.

It has been prophesied that believers will fall away from the faith: 1 Timothy 4:1-2 and yet those overthrown in their faith are still of Him: 2 Timothy 2:18-26 but to be that vessel unto honour in God's House, the call is to narrow the way back to the straight gate: Luke 13:24-30

I wrote

Yet on every post about the Holy Spirit you introduce fear. I wonder about the doctrinal influences you have had.

You replied

How about this one? Decide this day Whom you will serve: the Lord Jesus Christ or something else in His name?

This is incorrect because the scripture was talking about the “Lord your God (Elohim)” this statement was made by Joshua in Joshua 24:15 and it referred to the Lord (Yahovah) God (Elohim). You need to notice that Joshua did not understand the concept of Jesus and that Joshua understood that the name of Elohim was plural in context. So the scripture was not saying that we should only worship Jesus but was saying that we should worship the Lord our God which is a trinity.

I wasn't quoting Joshua 24:15. I was practically quoting the entire theme of the New Testament.

I have never said to worship the Holy Spirit singularly. I have always said that the worship of the Holy Spirit was part of the worship of the One God because the Holy Spirit is God. Why do you have a hard time seeing the Holy Spirit as God?

I see the Holy Spirit as God. You are not seeing the role of the Holy Spirit as outlined for you in the scriptures so that we may be witnesses of the Son to call those in the world to God the Father through the Son only so that we may stand apart from the world in word and deed, prayer and worship.

Colossians 3:17And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

Philippians 2:5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

The Father is not honoured nor glorified through any other way than the Son.

The Holy Spirit is God and will not fail as a witness of the Son in seeking His glory. John 16:13-14

[Richard_1]

Pariah wrote

Let's not go there. I am addressing the issue: The Holy Spirit cannot be in the worship place to be worshipped so we can discern what is in the world.

Lets do go there because that same Holy Spirit of God that dwells in me has led me to that experience like Pauls that led to the statement

For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

It seems that your problem is a doctrinal one. It seems as though you are prejudice towards anything Pentecostal or Charismatic and in this light you judge and condemn many. Do you see that in the many times I asked you whether you condemned me that you never once answered.

Pariah wrote

Towards the last point of the quote above: Feel free to quote a verse after the Four Gospels where they baptised the way He instructed them to of the Trinity. All I see is Jesus' name.

So then tell me why Jesus told them to baptize in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, was Jesus wrong in saying that if He was the only name to be used. Jesus was God so in saying to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit He meant for them to do that but you would have that change into your doctrinal idea. So tell me if a person changes the command of Jesus who is God into their doctrinal statement would they not be false teachers.

I wrote

I have never spoken about whether we have received the Holy Spirit or not yet you have judged me as an offender and a false witness. It makes me wonder why you are so adamant and have such a judgment in this matter.

Pariah wrote

Yes, you did posted as such.

This is a falsehood on your part and I invite anyone who is reading this to find that post. In post # nine of this thread I said this

The Holy Spirit in my life testifies that Jesus is the Christ and He came in the flesh.

So tell me where this is doctrinally wrong.

Pariah wrote

Towards the last point of the quote above: Feel free to quote a verse after the Four Gospels where they baptised the way He instructed them to of the Trinity. All I see is Jesus' name.

Please show me in the scriptures where Jesus said to baptize in His name only. By the way are you saying that the Gospels are not to be followed?

[Pariah]

Pariah wrote: Let's not go there. I am addressing the issue: The Holy Spirit cannot be in the worship place to be worshipped so we can discern what is in the world.

Lets do go there because that same Holy Spirit of God that dwells in me has led me to that experience like Pauls that led to the statement

The "Let's not go there" statement was your inferring a personal attack on you as by your quote below:

Yet you determine that because I have a relationship with the Holy Spirit that does not fit you doctrinal determination that I am spreading lies

But since you want to go to a different point: then let's.

How can the Holy Spirit in you lead you to experience something of Him that requires you to call on the Holy Spirit to come if He is already in you?

It seems that your problem is a doctrinal one. It seems as though you are prejudice towards anything Pentecostal or Charismatic and in this light you judge and condemn many. Do you see that in the many times I asked you whether you condemned me that you never once answered.

Because I am not allowed to "attack" the poster. You are a moderator. You should know that. That is why I am addressing the issue as required and permissable by the forum's rules. We can only reprove false teachings by the scriptures, and that is how we are edified by.

Pariah wrote: Towards the last point of the quote above: Feel free to quote a verse after the Four Gospels where they baptised the way He instructed them to of the Trinity. All I see is Jesus' name.

So then tell me why Jesus told them to baptize in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, was Jesus wrong in saying that if He was the only name to be used. Jesus was God so in saying to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit He meant for them to do that but you would have that change into your doctrinal idea. So tell me if a person changes the command of Jesus who is God into their doctrinal statement would they not be false teachers.

Did the disciples go into all the nations? No. But many would allude that great commisiion to mean just that when in actuality, Jesus said to teach all nations whatsoever He has commanded us: and one can say the disciples did that on the Day of Pentecost.

So let us consider the ramification of baptising in all three names. Not every one that hears will believe, and to baptize in all three names is probable cause for a stoning by the Jewish community. Chrsitianity would be wiped out before it began since many of the disciples were following Jesus' commandment to go to the House of Israel first still.

God had to give a vision to Peter to broaden his horizon on God's ministry. Paul had to rebuked Peter when he seperated himself from the Gentile believers when the Jewish converts came. So for all those that believed, this was declared right from the very beginning on the Day of Pentecost to avoid any religious non-believers from stoning the believers: Acts 2:37-39

I wrote:I have never spoken about whether we have received the Holy Spirit or not yet you have judged me as an offender and a false witness. It makes me wonder why you are so adamant and have such a judgment in this matter.

Pariah wrote: Yes, you did posted as such.

This is a falsehood on your part and I invite anyone who is reading this to find that post.

It is post #9

Several times you have alluded to the fact that mediums and american indians call on spirits and make it a statement that if we call on the Holy Spirit that we would be deceived and that we would become destroyed by this. Why is it that your concept of the Gospel and the Holy Spirit is one that induces fear. Have you not read this

2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

In post # nine of this thread I said this:

The Holy Spirit in my life testifies that Jesus is the Christ and He came in the flesh.

So tell me where this is doctrinally wrong.

The ignoring of the following verse to understand what is being stated in that verse: 1 John 4:3-4 That means the Holy Spirit will not be moving around outside of you nor be in the worship place to be worshipped where other spirits in the world dwells.

Your body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit and that is the only way you will know Him is by Him being in you: not in the worship place. John 14:16-17

Please show me in the scriptures where Jesus said to baptize in His name only.

The absence of baptizing in each name of the Person of the Trinity notwithstanding, is not grounds to approach God the Father through the Holy Spirit when all invitations points to the Son and still does so as to avoid false spirits as well as false prophets.

By the way are you saying that the Gospels are not to be followed?

By the way, are you saying that we should ignore Whom the Holy Spirit and scriptures are pointing to and feel free to look at the Pointer? How does that work for you when you point others to Jesus, but instead, they seek to have that relationship with God through you as if you are the Good Shepherd?

May God cause the increase.

[Richard_1]

Pariah wrote

How can the Holy Spirit in you lead you to experience something of Him that requires you to call on the Holy Spirit to come if He is already in you?

I have never stated that the Holy Spirit needed to be called on. What I have said is that because the Holy Spirit is God that I have a reverence and worship for Him. By the way worship (shachah in Hebrew---to bow down, bow a knee to) (proskyneō in Greek--- to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence) which the scriptures tell us to do to God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). This seems to be a point you miss.

Pariah wrote

That means the Holy Spirit will not be moving around outside of you nor be in the worship place to be worshipped where other spirits in the world dwells.

Your body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit and that is the only way you will know Him is by Him being in you: not in the worship place. John 14:16-17

So then are you saying that the Holy Spirit is limited in where He can be. Have you not read what the Holy Spirit does. Because the Holy Spirit is God then the Holy Spirit has no limitations because He is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. So the Holy Spirit is not limited in where He can be unless you believe God is not omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent. Your statements seem to be an effort to limit the work of the Holy Spirit of God.

Pariah wrote

The absence of baptizing in each name of the Person of the Trinity notwithstanding, is not grounds to approach God the Father through the Holy Spirit when all invitations points to the Son and still does so as to avoid false spirits as well as false prophets.

And this statement is clearly teaching a Gospel of fear. The Holy Spirit that dwells in me is omnipotent, omniscient ,and omnipresent. The Holy Spirit of God is my strength and my teacher and will always lead me into the truth. I have no fear of the spirits in this world because greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world. You seem to teach that we should fear these spirits. The scriptures plainly teach this about fear

1 John 4:18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.