Messiah

[onesiphorus]

Dear JayDub , thats no problem

[Robert Cragg]

During the tribulation there will be 144,000. 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes they will preach the word. They will be sealed by God so no harm can come to them. Those Jews who never except Jesus will end up in hell. If you want scripture refference you can find it in Revelation 7:1-8

[onesiphorus]

Thank you Robert just in time , I believe we the church the body of Christ will be raptured and not face the tribulation which is the prophetic programme for his people Israel, preceding the 1000year millennial reign of Christ

[Robert Cragg]

Originally Posted by onesiphorus

Thank you Robert just in time , I believe we the church the body of Christ will be raptured and not face the tribulation which is the prophetic programme for his people Israel, preceding the 1000year millennial reign of Christ

God bless you, we will be out of here, before the Great Tribulation. See Revelation 7:9-17.

[Jay Dub]

Originally Posted by Robert Cragg

During the tribulation there will be 144,000. 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes they will preach the word. They will be sealed by God so no harm can come to them. Those Jews who never except Jesus will end up in hell. If you want scripture refference you can find it in Revelation 7:1-8

onesiphorus said
Thank you Robert just in time , I believe we the church the body of Christ will be raptured and not face the tribulation which is the prophetic programme for his people Israel, preceding the 1000year millennial reign of Christ

Now you have confused me, if you agree with Robert, then you agree that Jews are not saved as a nation

[Robert Cragg]

There is some confusion, The bible nation of Isreal will be saved, but that does not every Jewish person those who continue to reject God will be lost. The 144,000 Jews will be preaching the word to all who remain during the Great Tribulation, but there will be those who continue to reject Jesus. Then when Jesus returns after the tribulation, He will set foot on the mount of olives. With him will be a new heaven and a new earth and a New Jerusalem set up for the 1,000 year reign of Christ, for the first heaven and earth will pass away. Revelation 21 the whole chapter, explains it the best.

[onesiphorus]

Dear JayDub I have said nothing to confuse, everything in Revelation is to do with the restoration of the earthly kingdom to Israel ... what is said in the above post we the Church which is neither Jew or Gentile are saved between these 2 points ...the revelatation of the Mystery of the gospel of grace and the rapture and then we have the reintroduction of the prophetic programme for His people Israel, which Robert refers to above .

The whole basis on believing that is on whether you believe that we the church the body of Christ are caught up in the air to meet him and avoid the wrath of God , which by the way God does say we do not have to face .....or....

you do not believe that you are caught up and you have to go through and endure the wrath of God which the scripture says the church the body of Christ does not have to , in which case the only way you can do that is to identify the church the body of Christ as Israel and replace Israel in the scriptures and you have to allagorise the passages otherwise nothing in the new testament makes sense


I do not see how you say I do not believe the Jews will be saved as a nation ...the 144,000 are Israel..the 2 witnesses are Israel and the kingdom will be Israel and following the destruction of Satan after the milllenium will lead to an ternal Israel in the new jerusalem on earth ..we will have eternity ruling with Christ in the heaven they Israel will have eternity in the new jerusalem wherever that will be

[smellycat]

i think Jesus has the power to change scripture.and he is our salvation.

[Faith]

Originally Posted by onesiphorus

Thank you Robert just in time , I believe we the church the body of Christ will be raptured and not face the tribulation which is the prophetic programme for his people Israel, preceding the 1000year millennial reign of Christ

You are wrong to believe this...

The Lord has clearly shown in his revelation to John that the Church will go through the tribulation. The first resurrection before the 1,000 year reign of Christ is those killed for not worshipping the beast. This can be found in
Revelation 20:1-7 (King James Version)


1.And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2.And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3.And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4.And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5.But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6.Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7.And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,


The whole of chapter 20 gives details of the end. The truth is that Christians will face the beast and false prophet. It is important you get this right as you could end up worshipping the false prophet.

Love Faith.xx



T

[Jay Dub]

Originally Posted by onesiphorus

Dear JayDub I have said nothing to confuse, everything in Revelation is to do with the restoration of the earthly kingdom to Israel ... what is said in the above post we the Church which is neither Jew or Gentile are saved between these 2 points ...the revelatation of the Mystery of the gospel of grace and the rapture and then we have the reintroduction of the prophetic programme for His people Israel, which Robert refers to above .

Well then, you will have to forgive my ignorance, because you do confuse me. weather you feel you said something confusing or not, I am confused by your post. I too agree with Roberts post

Robert said

Robert Cragg During the tribulation there will be 144,000. 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes they will preach the word. They will be sealed by God so no harm can come to them. Those Jews who never except Jesus will end up in hell.

I am confused because this quote is not what you have been saying

Robert is obviously talking about a time after the Rapture of the church, which you know I don't agree with your interpretation of the scripture here,
but for the sake of the discussion, lets say the church has been raptured.
You have been saying all of Israel will be saved, Robert is saying those Jews Who reject Jesus after the rapture will go to hell.

you do not believe that you are caught up and you have to go through and endure the wrath of God which the scripture says the church the body of Christ does not have to ,

No, it is quite clear through scripture Gods wrath is poured out on those who reject Jesus, not the church.

in which case the only way you can do that is to identify the church the body of Christ as Israel and replace Israel in the scriptures

This is a problem you have, I have NEVER SAID REPLACE ISRAEL
I have said Israel those who believe in Christ and Gentiles who believe in Christ are one. We are one family. We are the elect we are the chosen. You keep wanting to divide what God has joined together. You want to put believers in Jesus those who were raptured in heaven forever and Jews after the rapture on earth forever. We are one family together forever with our Lord and our God. We are not divided, we are one

and you have to allagorise the passages otherwise nothing in the new testament makes sense

Actually everything is a smooth perfect picture to me, on the other hand you have to use dispensations to make everything make sense

I do not see how you say I do not believe the Jews will be saved as a nation ...the 144,000 are Israel..the 2 witnesses are Israel and the kingdom will be Israel and following the destruction of Satan after the milllenium will lead to an ternal Israel in the new jerusalem on earth ..we will have eternity ruling with Christ in the heaven they Israel will have eternity in the new jerusalem wherever that will be

The Nation of Israel will be saved as a country, but the people need Jesus to be saved, as Robert has said those who reject Jesus will go to hell. It is obvious that the 144000 and the two witnesses believe in Jesus and so does the rest of the Jews need to believe in him. After all what would the point of the 144000 be if the Jews did not need to accept Jesus as their Messiah