A letter or an epistle?

[JIP]

Originally Posted by Jay Dub

I have been thinking about this a little more and find it to be hard to believe, That God would allow his word to have things that were not true in them

It would also take away some of the trustworthiness from the bible

Because I consider the bible to be the inspired word of God, I find those facts about the bible hard to believe.

I will do some research and share what I find

Dear Jay I am gald to hear that you were thinking about it a little more and even though it is hard to believe you opted to do some research.. thats what God has asked us to do... to discern.
Never take what I say as the facts.. I like all who have opinions are humans... but one should verify and reason as an attempt to understand truly what God's Word must really be.

The roots of modern Christianity do not run as deep as many might think, especially Christians. Some think that the King James Version of the Bible was the original Bible, hand-written by God himself. I don't even need to point out the fallacies in that statement.

The differences between ancient, original, primitive Christianity and modern Christianity are profound. We are left wondering, some of us searching for, what Jesus of Galilee actually taught.

The doctrines of Christianity were created by Paul, and even the name Christianity was coined by this well-spoken Greek Jew with Roman citizenship who never met Jesus in person. Though Paul did later meet Peter and James, Jesus's brother, they did not get along. The New Testament records tensions and downright disagreements among them.


I will share with you some of the findings when I researched about the letters/epistle. I will take letter/epistle by letter/epistle. I will do a few today and if time permits tomorrow I will some more.

1. The Letter to the Galatians

a. Addressee
No one seriously questions the Pauline authorship of the letter to the Galatians. What is questioned is the addressee of the letter, was it nothern Galatia? Galatia is one of the Roman province in Asia Minor. The northern part had already a Jewish community during the first century. Many seeing the 'gentile' properties of the letter (4:8, 5:2-3; 6:12-13) conclude that it would be the northern towns since they are more gentile in characteristics than the south. Others however insist that it would be impossible at this stage of Christianity that the northern towns would already be preached to, or that it even had a Jewish community.

Nonetheless, it is more probable from the 'gentile passages' that Paul was writing to gentile Christians, at least predominantly, who are becoming fascinated in Jewish practices and custom or again are being harassed into its observance.

b. Date and Place of Composition
The letter is difficult to date precisely. It may have been the earliest epistle (writen 48) as many believe or it may date after 52. If the indication in Acts 18:23 is accepted, then the letter would be written around 54-57., most likely from Ephesus ( or even Corinth) after Paul's arrival there for a stay of several years on his third missionary journey ( Acts 19; 20:31). This would agree with the assumption that the letter was addressed to North Galatia.

However, on the South galatian theory, the date would be earlier, perhaps A.D. 48-50. Involved is the question of how one realtes the events of Gal 2:1-10 to the "Council of Jerusalem" described in Acts 15.

c. Purpose of the letter
Paul's main purpose in writing the letter is to answer the questions posed by the Judeo-Christains who insisted on the observance of the Mosiac Law (gal 1:6-7, 4:9-10).

Besides impelling the gentile Christians to Jewish observance, they also apparently questioned Paul's authority since he was not among the initial disciples and was even the Church's persecutor ( Gal 1:13-14).

d. General Message
(i) Paul stresses Christ's redemptive act and the ineffectiveness of the Mosiac law for gaining divine favour and blessings (esp., Gal 3:19-29). The pious Jew saw in the law a way established by God to win divine approval by a life of meticulous observance of ritual, social, and moral regulatiions. But Pauls's profound insight into the higher designs of God in Christ led him to understand that the law through sin became eventually a curse and only the freedom that faith in Jesus can one arttain salvation.
(ii) Paul defended his authority by:-
- claiming his calling as not from a human source but directly from Christ Himself ( Gal 1:11-12);
- even Cephas and other apostles recognized the grace given to him ( Gal 2:9), and even they wre admonished by Paul himself ( Gal 2:11-14).
- he has given himself to the proclamation of the true gospel and bore the wounds of Christ ( Gal 6:17).
(iii) In the latter part of the letter, paul exhorted the reader/s to live accordingly the demands of being freed by Christ. One has to live 'by the Spirit, and not gratify the flesh'(Gal 6:16). The one commandment that a Christian should take into his heart is the commandment of love (Gal 6:14). from here, Paul eneumerated the things that a Christian should avoid and the things to strive for (gal 5:19-26).

... will continue later with another letter/epistle.

[Jay Dub]

Jay can I ask you a straight question...when you say "Il believe", what is that you believe? Is it facts or something else? What I have written is facts. I am ready to take it back when you can prove me otherwise. If the discussion is going to be on what oneé belief is, then there not going to be any point in answering as it will only lead to an unending discussion.If you are ready to believe facts I will be able to give facts...

Jip, you are quite right. I have very little facts concerning the writing of the bible, and is why I asked you those questions. I would love to see facts and how they relate to the scriptures. I will be looking into this more.

You have to understand, we do have beliefs and our discussion will reflect our beliefs, I hope in a discussion like this that, when truth appears we see it and grab hold of it.

At present my beliefs on this subject is based on the fact that men have been trying to disprove God for a long time. They have torn the scriptures apart looking for its flaws, the word has always been true, science has not been able to disprove it, it follows history perfectly. If the bible was in error men would have exploited its weaknesses to prove that there is no God

I also find comfort in the dead sea scrolls that after over 1000 years there was very little in difference to what we have today I believe there was only a few spelling errors

Then there is my belief in God, we believe he is in full control over all areas in our lives, but he was not in full control over the writing of his word.

Jip

I am only giving you the reasons why I believe as I do. I am not saying for anyone else to believe because of these things, these are the reasons I believe as I do.

I would love to see facts, in the short time I have been looking I am finding it hard to find FACTS on the subject

[JIP]

Originally Posted by Jay Dub

You have to understand, we do have beliefs and our discussion will reflect our beliefs, I hope in a discussion like this that, when truth appears we see it and grab hold of it.

Amen Jay Dub.
I fully understand your point of view. My views aren't much different.
You will see.

I will continue on the Epistles a little later
Be Blessed

[onesiphorus]

Dear Jay Dub ifyou are intersted in more of this heresy you can either get into and ultra orthodox jewish website , who do not recognise Jesus Christ as Lord and savior , or alternatively you can buy the book

THE CHRIST MYTH (PAGE 36) A HANDBOOK AF ANTI CHRISTIANITY BY THE WELL KNOWN ATHEIST AUTHOR JOHN REMSBERG ..THIS BOOK ALLEGES ALL KINDS OF THINGS TO REFUTE AND MOCK AND DENY CHRIST AND THE BIBLE AND CHRISTIAN SCRIPTURE

SO Jay Dub if you do not believe me check it out ..every word in the bible is God breathed

[Jay Dub]

onesiphorus

I have been honest with Jip, I have stated my beliefs. I am looking forward to see where he is coming from. When and if Jip says something that is not true or I don't understand , I will question him on it.

I have posted my beliefs on the fact that I believe all scripture is the word of God. I am sure if Jip believes there to be facts on this subject he will share them with us, we as brothers in Christ should at least hear him out. Then we can see if what he is calling fact is truth or not.

I have never looked into this line of thinking before and I am interested in what he has to say. In my heart, I don't see this as being possible, but I am willing to look at the facts. I also think it could be a great learning experience. Lets learn why we believe these are the words of God

[Bloodbought]

Dear JIP

The doctrines of Christianity were created by Paul, and even the name Christianity was coined by this well-spoken Greek Jew with Roman citizenship who never met Jesus in person.

.

I thought that Paul met Jesus on the road to Damascus. (Acts 9v3)

He also was caught up to the third heaven (2 Cor 12) and there heard and presumably saw the Lord.

We are not told what happened during his time in Arabia (Gal 1 v 17) but it is thought to be a time when the Lord instructed him directly.

Paul says that he is an Apostle. That means that he saw the Lord in person.

[JIP]

Originally Posted by Bloodbought

Dear JIP...I thought that Paul met Jesus on the road to Damascus. (Acts 9v3)

He also was caught up to the third heaven (2 Cor 12) and there heard and presumably saw the Lord.

We are not told what happened during his time in Arabia (Gal 1 v 17) but it is thought to be a time when the Lord instructed him directly.

Paul says that he is an Apostle. That means that he saw the Lord in person.

Dear Bloodbought,
Phew got the name ok this time.

I was talking about a different line and the subject is different to what you have asked me. Paul did not meet Jesus in flesh before the crusification. I thought I expressed it clearly but I know what words can play on one's mind... so I will be more specific when I say stuffs like that. On another note most messages are usually contained within the purpose of the message if one follows the context.

Please bear with me for the moment to complete what I am speaking about the Pauline letters/epistles. After that we can take up a discussion on the lines you have enquired.
I do not have much time like before. Have to take this up after work....and I still carry work home....and hang around the forum because I enjoy reading the stuff here..

I promise you that I will get back to you on this BB.
Be Blessed

[JIP]

2. The first letter to the Thessalonians
a. Addresse
Thessalonica was a port and capital city of Macedonia, in the north of what is now Greece. At the time of Paul, it was a thriving commercial center. Commerce attracted cosmopolitan population. The Jewsish community had a synagogue in which Paul preached ( Acts 17:1-2). The city had several religious groups such as emperor worship and several Oriental religions.

Although Paul, according to Acts, preached to Jews in their synagogue and might have been their guest for a period of time (since he preached to them for 3 weeks), it however seems from the letter that the Christians in Thessalonica were predominantly gentiles and pagan converts. This may ne reconciled by the fact that the same account in Acts talks of paul being expelled from the city by the Jews.

b. Date of composition
The 1st letter was written by Paul perhaps in Corinth around 50 or 51, whereas he went after being chased away from Thessalonica into Athens ( Acts 17;10-15). This was the 2nd missionary jpurney of Paul ( which started around the year 50) and might have been the time when he established the community there. Paul, being unable to return to the city, sent Timothy instead in his place while he proceeded into Corinth where he wrote the letter. Paul himself talks that 'a short time has passed' since he visited the Thessalonian community.

c. Purpose
Timothy brought good news about the situation of the Church in Thessalonica which encouraged Paul, but apparently indicated that there was some misunderstanding there about the fate of those who had died. So Paul tried to respond to those problems in the 1st letter while at the same time his wish to return soon.

d. Message
(i) Paul admonished the Thessalonians not to grieve for the death of one of their members, but rather they should not lose hope for those who are alive will soon join them with the risen Christ (1Thes 4:14-18);
(ii) Aside from the general exhortation at the beginning of the letter ( 1Thes 1-3), Paul encouraged the Thessalonians that in line with the coming Day of the Lord that they should be vigilant, since we belong to the day, let us be sober, and put on the breastplate of faith and lov and for a helmet the hope of alvation (1Thes 5:8).