sets himself up in Gods temple??

[Jay Dub]

2Th 2:3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

2Th 2:4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

I am having a little trouble with this verse and was looking for some help

If this is speaking of a physical temple, why would it be called Gods temple, since we are now his temple

2Cr 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Even if the Jews rebuild the temple would this be pleasing to our God or the ultimate rejection of the work of the cross and our Lord or is this verse some how symbolic

[Pariah]

Some believers say that this desecration has already occurred before the Temple was destroyed in 70 A.D. However, double prophecies are known to co exists in scriptures and I believe that the Third Temple will be built as prophesied, and although I do not remember the exact reference in Daniel, it is prophesied that when they give the command out to build that third Temple, that would be the signal of the beginning of the 7 years Great Tribulation.

So yes, we, the believers, are God's Temple, but the Jews that believe not, will be the ones building that third Temple for the great tribulation.

[Jay Dub]

Yes I agree with that, but isn't odd then that it is called God's temple or did I miss your point. Will this third temple be pleasing to the Lord?

[Jamesb1981]

Yes, we are God's Temple!

It is hard to say whether the third Temple will please God!

Will the third Temple be physical or spiritual?

There are some that feel that any Worship is pleasing to God.

Surely though if Jews, not believing that Jesus was and is the Savior are the ones to build the third Temple then surely they cannot truly worship the Father as Christ himself said that he is the way, and that none come to the Father except through him!

This would seem to create even more of a greater need to minister to our Jewish neighbours and tell them of the Good News and the life and salvation that only Christ can offer!

[Pariah]

Yes I agree with that, but isn't odd then that it is called God's temple or did I miss your point. Will this third temple be pleasing to the Lord?

I doubt it will be pleasing to the Lord since no more sacrifices for sins can be offered anymore to God in that way. Hebrews 10:26-31

[Pariah]

It is hard to say whether the third Temple will please God!

This would seem to create even more of a greater need to minister to our Jewish neighbours and tell them of the Good News and the life and salvation that only Christ can offer!

Which is probably why the 144,000 witnesses were chosen for the duration of the great tribulation when that third Temple gets built.

[Servo]

Which is probably why the 144,000 witnesses were chosen for the duration of the great tribulation when that third Temple gets built.

And which 144,000 witnesses would you be referring to and on what scriptural basis would this view be supported other than Jehovah's Witness doctrine?

[Pariah]

And which 144,000 witnesses would you be referring to and on what scriptural basis would this view be supported other than Jehovah's Witness doctrine?

Actually, since the 144,000 witnesses will not be chosen until after the rapture for the great tribulation, it hardly supports the Jehovah's Witnesses at all.

But pertaining to the 144,000 witnesses are these references:

Revelation 7:1-8

This holding back of judgment that is to fall on the earth after the rapture is a period of time when the 144,000 witnesses will be sealed for the coming duration of the great tribulation.

I see it by His grace. The same will have to be done for you in order for you to see this as well, brother buzz.

[Jamesb1981]

Actually, since the 144,000 witnesses will not be chosen until after the rapture for the great tribulation, it hardly supports the Jehovah's Witnesses at all.

I always shudder at the word 'Rapture'.

We know of the end days, and we know what is spoken about in the Gospels and Revelation.

As humans and believers we have been studying that for the last 2000 years.

But this whole notion of 'Rapture' is not mentioned in the Bible, and has only been grafted on to a Christian context for about 300 years, nearly always by American evangelists/preachers.

We cannot know exactly what will happen in the final battle.

Even Jesus doesn't know exactly what, or when it will happen!

Only the Father himself knows that!

What we do know is that Christ is coming, and Christ will defeat Evil for the final time, and we who are saved will spend eternity with him in glorious worship!

[Pariah]

I always shudder at the word 'Rapture'.

Since there are three harvests that makes up the Kingdom of God as a whole and that fact is hidden from the general reader, I can understand why most believers will not see it: Matthew 13:33

We know of the end days, and we know what is spoken about in the Gospels and Revelation.

As humans and believers we have been studying that for the last 2000 years.

But this whole notion of 'Rapture' is not mentioned in the Bible, and has only been grafted on to a Christian context for about 300 years, nearly always by American evangelists/preachers.

We cannot know exactly what will happen in the final battle.

Jesus did answer the questions put forth by the disciples in Matthew 24 th chapter, but we need the Lord to know which answer He gave was to which question the disciples had asked since it is obvious that not all of His answers were gievn in chronological order.

Even Jesus doesn't know exactly what, or when it will happen!

Only the Father himself knows that!

We will not know exactly, but we will know when it is at the door.

A point to consider about the post tribulational return of Christ, the antichrist knew when He was coming back since he gathered the world's armies in the valley of Armegeddon to do battle. How can this be unless from the time they give the command out to build that third Temple, is the beginning of the 7 years great tribulation? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to add seven years from that command given to know when Christ will return to have the armies of the world gathered and ready to do battle at the valley of Armegeddon, right?

But since judgment must fall on the House of God first, it is that call for readiness for all believers to heed and take note of by looking to the author and finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight and sin that so easily besets us so we can run the race having confidence that Jesus will finish what He has started in us. Philippians 1:6-11 Hebrews 12:1-2

Anyway, there are three harvests that makes up the whole of the Kingdom of God and the first harvest of NT saints will sit at meal with the OT saints: Luke 13:24-30 This harvest takes place when judgment will fall on the House of God first: 1 Peter 4:17-19 leaving behind the foolish virgins and the prodigal sons so that the foolish virgins will have oil for their lamps and their lights shining finally as the prodigal sons will be returning because they are still sons: bought with a price and sealed as His as both will be restored to the path of righteiusness for His name's sake as the Good Shepherd He is in getting those lost sheep.

Then the second harvest at the end of the great tribulation occurs after the defeat of Satan.

Now consider this> If the saints came back with Jesus to be with Him when He comes to the valley of Armegeddon, then whom were the saints that were resurrected after the defeat of Satan? Quite the conuncdrum, isn't it? Then there has to be a prior harvest before the great tribulation.

If you read Revelation in how God addressed each of the seven churches to examine themselves and to repent lest they be as one church was warned, cvast into the bed of the great tribulation and another church exhorted by saying God will keep them out of the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth and then finally to the last church warned and exhorted to be zealous therefore and repent. Even at the end of the Book of Revelation, the call to come to Jesus by the Bride and the Spirit is clear that many other invitations are being put out there besides the sole invitation to come to Jesus in having that relationship with God as it is that iniquity of broadening the way in coming to God that needs to be repented of. Matthew 7:13-16 John 10:1 John 10:7-9 John 14:6-7

So the call to every believer to depart from iniquity by narrowing the way they are relating to God the Father and that is by way of the Son only. Any other way is sinking sand, and great will be the fall of that house. Matthew 7:21-27

So there is a need for the rapture to come:

#1 judgment on the House of God to receive the chaste bride

#2 to restore the wayward to the path of righteiusness for His name's sake by leaving them behind.

#3. to signal the end of the times of the Gentiles because of the falling away of the faith

#4. to hand the despensation of the Gospel back to the Jews, the 144,000 witnesses for the duration of the great tribulation.

What we do know is that Christ is coming, and Christ will defeat Evil for the final time, and we who are saved will spend eternity with him in glorious worship!

We should also know that judgment will fall on the House of God first and thus the call to every believer is to depart from inquity to be that vessel unto honour in God's House: 2 Timothy 2:16-26