Is it Gods judgment

[Jay Dub]

In the Old testament we are told that certain disasters, were caused by God, that his Judgment was poured out on certain people

Sodom and Gomorrah, The flood and how many times did disaster fall on Israel when they were sinful

Does God still pour out his Judgment on his people today?

Hbr 12:7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?

I asked because of a statement, by Pat Robinson about what had happened in Haiti

While hosting “The 700 Club” on the Christian Broadcasting Network Wednesday, Robertson said the 7.0-magnitude quake that struck Haiti a day earlier was the consequence of the curse that had befallen the country’s people after its founding fathers made a “pact to the Devil” in exchange for Haiti’s independence from France.

We are told that as the end approaches there will be more earthquakes are these a warning from God or just a sign that the end is near

Is it wrong to wonder, if when disaster strikes, is it a message from God or just nature taking its toll

[Wabco]

Is it wrong to wonder, if when disaster strikes, is it a message from God or just nature taking its toll

I know it is seen as unpopular by non-christians to say this, but I think it is both.

God is just though, and does what He sees fit.

I was only talking to someone last night that disasters bring people to God IMO.

If everything is going A OK in your life you don't think you need God. When that is stripped away (eg home, money, family, health) as can happen in a disaster....people realise they need God...if they have any sense.

that is what I think anyway.

Having said that I do not think Haiti's independance from France is a sin! It is of course an area which we have to tread carefully. The thing to remember is that disasters happen everyday to people on a personal scale. Are these too judgements from God? Not necessarily, but they can be used by God to get ppl's attention. Nothing can be done on earth without God allowing it.

[iamowen]

"Does God still pour out his Judgment on his people today?"

Dear Jay Dub
I can say with absolute certainty that HE does not !
We may be deserving of it, but GOD in Christ was and is reconciling the world to HIMSELF. We have passed from darkness to light and HE has translated us from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of HIS SON. There HE (Christ)evermore makes intersession for us,
We can and do bring upon ourselves the consequences of our own actions, and likewise we also reap the benefits of our right choices and actions. We sow and we reap a harvest according to the seed sown.

"Hbr 12:7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? "

Again Jay Dub this is not judsgement but discapline, totally different to judgement.
"While hosting “The 700 Club” on the Christian Broadcasting Network Wednesday, Robertson said the 7.0-magnitude quake that struck Haiti a day earlier was the consequence of the curse that had befallen the country’s people after its founding fathers made a “pact to the Devil” in exchange for Haiti’s independence from France."

What an utter load of trash and dangerous accusations. GOD is reaching out with "grace" to all in this age of grace. Now I do know of one who would want to destroy, but it most certainly is not GOD ! HE has set aside a time when HE will judge everything and that time has not yet come. Don't for one minuite listen to this trash or regard anyone who spouts it with any credabillity whatsoever, I repeat do not listen to the devils mouthpeice

[canny]

I agree Owen,

[Jay Dub]

Thank you Owen, I do agree, but I also have questions. I also a gree with Wabco, that most Christians draw closer to God, when they are in need. When all is taken away, we them put all our hopes on our Father, who is there always waiting. Sometimes we need discipline to help us remember the things that are truly important.

That then brings me to the question, What is discipline from God?
Is it an illness, a loss of a job a death in a family. I know these are hard questions, but I really don't know.

I live in the U.S and I hear quite often how blessed the U.S is because of how we have helped Israel and because this country was founded on Christian values, but if that is true, then is not the opposite true? The further we remove ourselves from God, the less he will bless us and if his blessings are not on us what do we call that?

We are told as we get close to the second coming of Jesus we will see more earthquakes like birth pains, are these Gods warnings to us to be ready? If yes, then what do we call it to those who lost their life or their homes in these quakes

The age of grace, does it also cover those who reject God?

I agree that Pat Robinson was not very smart, with his remarks. What the people of Haiti needed was to know that they were loved, not condemnation

I tend to see myself as Wabco sees it, but would love to have your absolute certainty

[Lily]

"Does God still pour out his Judgment on his people today?"

Dear Jay Dub
I can say with absolute certainty that HE does not !
We may be deserving of it, but GOD in Christ was and is reconciling the world to HIMSELF. We have passed from darkness to light and HE has translated us from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of HIS SON. There HE (Christ)evermore makes intersession for us,
We can and do bring upon ourselves the consequences of our own actions, and likewise we also reap the benefits of our right choices and actions. We sow and we reap a harvest according to the seed sown.

"Hbr 12:7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? "

Again Jay Dub this is not judsgement but discapline, totally different to judgement.
"While hosting “The 700 Club” on the Christian Broadcasting Network Wednesday, Robertson said the 7.0-magnitude quake that struck Haiti a day earlier was the consequence of the curse that had befallen the country’s people after its founding fathers made a “pact to the Devil” in exchange for Haiti’s independence from France."

What an utter load of trash and dangerous accusations. GOD is reaching out with "grace" to all in this age of grace. Now I do know of one who would want to destroy, but it most certainly is not GOD ! HE has set aside a time when HE will judge everything and that time has not yet come. Don't for one minuite listen to this trash or regard anyone who spouts it with any credabillity whatsoever, I repeat do not listen to the devils mouthpeice

If this is true ( and I'm not saying it isn't ), what is the wrath of God that will be poured out in the last day's ? I'm also not suggesting it " is " the last day's because, " No man shall know ", nonetheless, Scripture does say it HE " will " do it.

Just a rhetorical question to throw into the pot.

I agree that Pat Robinson was not very smart

I'd go further and say that people like Robinson need to be gagged. The disaster in Haiti was caused by shifts in tectonic plates beneath the surface of the sea.

That then brings me to the question, What is discipline from God?

Great question Jay Dub. In my opinion, we can think about how we discipline our own children. Yes, we discipline in way's that " will " hurt them in some way. Discipline wouldn't be very effective if it didn't hurt in some way, but while we may dish out effective discipline, we would never put them in any danger or compromise their welfare.

[eddybear]

I don't know what I think about this, if I'm honest. I'm very hesitant to make such bold and specific pronouncements of God's judgement against certain people. Jesus words in Luke 13 seem to apply, where in response to a question, he warns that everyone needs repentance. In a situation like this the people of Haiti need compassion and practical help, not condemnation.

But having said that, Romans 1 does describe God's wrath being revealed, in the present tense.

[canny]

bit, erm indiscriminate tho innit ? How many of those people were good Christian folk,,, does God now destroy because of leaders ?

It's really kind of why I can't go with God judging with natural disasters,, takes out too many innocents.

[iamowen]

Jay Dub, you asked " What is discipline from God?"
Wow, what a question to answer. I will try to answer you but not comprehensively, rather with a broad brush stroke, trying to paint a picture of HIS incomprehensible love. When our Loving Father disciplines us it is always in love and for our best ! When we are disobedient and refuse to do HIS will, HE will not bless us with HIS blessings, but rather wait until we come to see where we are wrong, repent and renew our fellowship with HIM. It is not that HE delights in not blessing us but HE delights in us doing HIS will, which is always best for us. We sometimes go so far down the wrong rout that HE may at times appear to want to do us harm by taking away things that we love or think that we cannot do without, but these are only our wrong reasonings. Imagine a child caught up in heroin addiction, to take away the heroine would seem to the child as taking away their only way of living ! but we know it is for their own good.

You also asked "We are told as we get close to the second coming of Jesus we will see more earthquakes like birth pains, are these Gods warnings to us to be ready? If yes, then what do we call it to those who lost their life or their homes in these quakes"
We are told by Jesus Himself that earthquakes and wars would increase, and that these would increase to wards the end. What do we call those who lost their life or homes ?? Victims ! Of Whom ? Not God ! There are many reasons but the real reason has more to do with economics than anything else.

And "The age of grace, does it also cover those who reject God?"
YES

Lilly you asked "what is the wrath of God that will be poured out in the last day's ?"
The wrath of God is HIS Righteous anger. A carefull reading of Revelation will show what will happen when HE pours it out !

[canny]

O, I do not believe I am disciplined by God in this life, by that it means anyone who has a drought or famine, or something bad happens, they have done something bad.

No condemnation