Are we Jewish.

[Spiritofprophecy]

I undersand what you are saying. But Jesus taught HIS disciples that most of what the Jews of HIS day were teaching (especially what the scribes, Pharisee's and saducee's taught) was wrong. They were teaching tradition instead of truth. Are we as you say supposed to build on that ! If we did we would crucify Jesus again and again for time immemorial. When was the last time they got it right ? Did they ever get it right ? Well I supose we can learn from their mistakes, if that were ever possible as history shows we never do.
Just a few idea's to throw in the pan for your consideration.

Greetings in the name of Jesus:

Wow Great post... and so true... Jews deceive themselves about Jesus; which God ordains, that Gentiles can then receive it...

This is the opposite side of the Jewish coin as to deception( Jews deceived themselves as to the Messiah persona) which is Jesus...
Where as Christians... our traditions also deceive us;. Jews did not accept the True Messiah as we Know... Traditions and power of mans will and desires prevented them from accepting the fulfillment of their religion... Which was Jesus.. They liked what they had, and Power of Stewards... " Parable of the vineyard"... where Steward killed Gods Son. to retain power.

Both Jew and Christians have deceived themselves...
When Jew and Christianity are joined as One faith;then shall these truths come into perspective; about an all powerful God, which is Jesus Christ, Messiah; God with men. Emanuel.

I pray my words do not offend, God bless all Christians in forum, and all who use it.

[iamowen]

Spititofprophecy, you wrote
"Jewish children for 3000 years read the Adam and Eve story, counseled to interpret it in the one God of Power alone concept. To view this speaking snake, as either a God entity symbolism or a Man symbolism. Which if to then read in One God Jewish concept, can easily then be interpreted as Man/Womans disobedient spirit speaking to Eve; in a snake concept.
So that then, Children understood that the Snake was mans disobedience speaking to man or Eve, through Eve. Which this concept exist today in Judaism. Which is an established One God concept, not polytheism; that the snake is not of God, or man. Which is clearly polytheism...!!!"
If you take your logik and apply it to Jesus Christ, you are saying that when HE was temted of satan in the wilderness, that HE was temted by His own evil desire or disobeidient spirit is absolutely incorect, even blastphemy. Your theory falls flat on the ground. The disciples who were Jews were not of that opinion either. When I read it I thought that it sounded wrong, now we see why.

[DeaconDan]

When Jew and Christianity are joined as One faith;then shall these truths come into perspective; about an all powerful God, which is Jesus Christ, Messiah; God with men. Emanuel.

Christianity is "about an all powerful God, which is Jesus Christ, Messiah; God with men. Emanuel." How can an antichrist religion (Judaism) improve on that?

In a previous post you argued that Judaism teaches us that believing in Satan makes us Polytheistic. "If the snake is not of Eve or God...Then it has power outside of Gods control, and God is not Omnipotent." How is it that Eve, or you, can exist without making God less than omnipotent, if a being outside of God makes God less than omnipotent?

[Bloodbought]

dear iamowen

I agree 100% with your question / point.

Jesus was perfect and perfectly God so how could he have been temted by anything within himself. IMPOSSIBLE.

Let forget traditions and stick to what the Bible teaches. Satan is a serpent, a roaring lion, angel of light etc. He is not a god or a demigod.

[Spiritofprophecy]

Spititofprophecy, you wrote
"Jewish children for 3000 years read the Adam and Eve story, counseled to interpret it in the one God of Power alone concept. To view this speaking snake, as either a God entity symbolism or a Man symbolism. Which if to then read in One God Jewish concept, can easily then be interpreted as Man/Womans disobedient spirit speaking to Eve; in a snake concept.
So that then, Children understood that the Snake was mans disobedience speaking to man or Eve, through Eve. Which this concept exist today in Judaism. Which is an established One God concept, not polytheism; that the snake is not of God, or man. Which is clearly polytheism...!!!"
If you take your logik and apply it to Jesus Christ, you are saying that when HE was temted of satan in the wilderness, that HE was temted by His own evil desire or disobeidient spirit is absolutely incorect, even blastphemy. Your theory falls flat on the ground. The disciples who were Jews were not of that opinion either. When I read it I thought that it sounded wrong, now we see why.

Greetings in the name of Jesus:

If I may with respect; take issue that " Jews were not of that opinion either"... I shall challenge any Christian; to find a devote Jew of today. Who believes that God gives power unto a demi God Satan outside of Gods power. And that God is not all powerful... If you cannot comprehend what I am saying which abides perfectly in Scriptures, I am sorry for my failure, to explain it. It is really simple; if Satan exist as a demi God persona of power, as some think, then God is not, Not all powerful.. and in control over evil and all things, except through man disobedience... As evil entered into the world by one man, and defeated by one man for all time, in Jesus....How did the Cross, defeat the power of Satan over man, for all time...Power he had before Jesus, but not after. How did Jesus on Cross, defeat a " demi God" Satan?...But defeated mans sin, seen by God. Now covered with blood. He defeated our evil accusing us to God...Satan = Accuser in Hebrew.

If I had a penny, for every time I answered the; how was " Jesus tempted in wilderness" I could buy us all coffee at Starbucks.

Lets lay down a foundation..." There is no temptation which is not common unto man."...1 Corinthians 10:13... Unless that Scripture is wrong. Jesus was tempted in " Common unto man temptation"..
What temptation was That..? Hunger and Power..Gee, that is what we all are tempted by.. which Jesus overcame his flesh, and desires therein, by fasting, and overcoming his inner temptations...Again.." Common unto man"

Now again I shall challenge the room to show one document, or teaching of any Christian before the 10th century which Dante's inferno truth, was espoused..? It doesn't exist...!!!! At least I haven't seen it.

........... Not one person in this room really believes this Middle ages Tripe, in a real life settings, with their families, related to Satan's evil people of possession... Which this polytheistic Satan, theology only protects denominations of Catholic doctrinal root.

........Give me one case of Demonic possession.... with a exorcism, where evil sin done, was absolved and forgiven by people?..(which exorcism is denied as fact, by Catholicism authorities today)...Apply it to your family...

....Example....Satan himself...Possesses a beautiful 16 year old boy, who then Kills!!!...And the Greatest exorcist comes and exorcises him....Your favorite exorcist claims he is now Demon free.. Will you plead for his defense in court to the Judge, to be absolved of sin, and he is sinless; which the sin was of possession sin only...?... or will you as all, believe his evil was of himself..? Possession, and temptation is common !!! and there is no other kind; unless scriptures are wrong..1 Corinthians 10:13.

This concept is sure; and fits every parable and temptation in scriptures; even Jesus in the wilderness.

Personally, I could never believe a sinner, will or can sin, which is not of himself ; or by Temptation, that it's not "common unto man"..When scripture says..."Satan is the Spirit of disobedience".

If a rapist, murdering sinner kills someone of my family: I will try to forgive him; but not absolve him of his action, even if claims of removal of possession is claimed.. Did Satan sin, or did that man?... I say Man, with common unto man desires..Its all rooted in common, and Love of money, would scriptures deceive us, or be the author of confusion..Trusting in scriptures, and believing scriptures alone, as to truth is how truth of God is found.... Not in Polytheistic middle ages Catholic doctrine.

If you believe Satan has power of himself, your Polytheistic; but if Satan's power comes from us, through us, rooted in Love of money and common unto man; then you can be Monotheistic of a One God all powerful...Only man rebels against God, and allowed to do so...

As to Polytheism. I believe in Satan; and battle him daily...Believing in Satan is not Polytheistic:Believing Satan has power, outside of God, and or man; is assuredly polytheistic. Satan is evil which exist...But not outside of man. " the root of All evil, is the love of money"..How much of the evil..? some evil, part evil..NO....All evil...And only, Only man can love money....!

And temptation...which all are tempted by Satan; how much is common and how much of Uncommon Satan...? There is no temptation, which is not common unto man..It behooved Jesus to be tempted in all things as a man. If I have not talking snakes, then neither did Jesus or anyone. It is parable.!!!!

How does a Satan of power faith help our walk with God or hurt us...? It diminishes Gods power,, gives excuses to man for sin. And for those who actually follow Gods words: contradicts scriptures...

Jesus called Peter Satan; because he " Savored the things of flesh above the things of God"....That is the essence of "Spirit of Satan"..

This is one of the Secrets and " Stumbling blocks" for Christians, not rooted in Monotheism...Parables deceive Christians....oops, that is what Jesus so prophesied about men. Satan came with man, and has no power unless God allows it....God creates all things,, Good and evil, the evil through man, which is disobedience unto God.

I am sorry if some cannot understand this Monotheistic One God all mighty Concept. But there is no power outside of God, And Evil only exist by and through man, having both Light and darkness.

But again: as long as one believes in Jesus, who is God in Flesh...you can believe in the tooth fairy and or Klingons... We are under grace, by faith in Jesus, we need not be perfect; but only need strive unto perfection through Christ to be saved.
But Gods Judgments and the meat of scriptures cannot be revealed in a polytheistic concept interpretation. In my opinion.

I pray my words do not offend, God bless all Christians in forum, and all who use it.

[Onesiphorus]

Dear Spiritofprophecy , I agree that conservative judaism and much contemporary judaism have beliefs that to us as chritian are unscriptural ,but at this present time they are still Lo-ammi ,and will not be regarded as Gods people until the times of Jacobs troubles ,but to deny the power of satan and deny hell is definitely unscriptural

Even our Savior calls him a "strong man" in Matthew 12:29


and in Job we have a demonstration of satans power ,with Gods approval ,here we see just what satan is capable of doing .

So I agree he is not a demi god ,but to say he has not power is mistaken ,and because of this power then you have disciples of satan because of thispower he demonstrates ,but God always has foreknowledge as He knows the beginning from the end

The Judaic faith is not Christianity ,the belief on their Messiah is not Christ Jesus ,they do not accept Him as the Savior ,they will recognise when He will return to earth in Wrath ,but not their savior at the cross

even though He is the redeemer of the sins of all the earth ,their salvation is earthly and physical and fulfilled by prophecy

Christian salvation is through the blood ,spiritually and heavenly


Same savior different dispensationsone by faith ,one by faith and works ,one assured ,one for those who endure to the end

Grace and peace in Christ

[Spiritofprophecy]

Greetings in the name of Jesus:

Dear Onesipherus:

I hope you are well... If I may speak to the previous post; as to what we receive from the book of Job..!

As to the "demonstration of Satan's Power" as to Job,,,, I think the opposite is true; that book of Job, enlightens man as to Satan's the "Lack of innate power; outside of man or individual power of Satan";... Which Satan has or had, no power to do anything, that was not ordained or allowed by God. In fact Satan is heard speaking to God, that Man is being protected by God from evil...!

Job also speaks about the first appearance of Satan; which first appearance was when Satan " came with man"... which Adam was the first man.

To me Job is a symbolic chapter about Gods power and authority as to man; Saying, that man cannot Judge God; and or God is righteous in all things, even when God allows evil to befall man. As Job being righteous, refused to condemn God, or accept his own responsibility in reaping evil, for the misfortune which befell him...God is righteous in all things, the Good and the evil, which all comes from God. "Praise God in all things even for misfortune..!!

As Christians we should "praise God" for good and bad. We can and do learn more from our trials and tribulations, from evil, then from all the good things of life. Which Bad things make us appreciate the good, and strengthens the faith and Church. Which Church, martyrdom of the Saints is built upon.

Satan, to me; is far more powerful, then this "Demi God" floating around; with people possessing power in the air. A demi God persona espoused by Catholic theology...This is not Monotheistic Judaism, espoused by Jesus and disciples... Or First Century Christianity or Judaism of any time...But from Dante's inferno concepts of 10-11th Century, which gave us possession theology of insomnia, laziness, gluttony, and the list is long..Which evils are common temptations of flesh, yet that is what Satan is... "Common of flesh" and " Spirit of disobedience"; to not do what is God's will or what we know is right.
I have heard say, by devote Catholic and protestants; when expressing their battle with Satan. " Satan does not effect me"... Saying " Jesus defeated Satan already".. I do not " have to worry or be concerned any more"...And are the "blind leading the blind", and deceiving themselves.
This is the true deception of Satan, which prophesy and scriptures speak unto, how Satan deceives man. He is much more sly and devious then any other creature... Which Man is that devious creature of origin, who can deceive himself. and as Scriptures say.. " Corrupt himself"...
.......When " we battle not with flesh and blood, but with powers and principalities in spiritual places".. which interprets and means... We battle as faithful, with powers and principalities in Spiritual places, not against flesh and blood. !!!! But the key catch phrase;; is ...." We Battle"..!!! Jesus left power and authority over evil and Satan with the faithful, unto us of faith...

What power..? All power is left unto the faithful...To do " Even Greater things"...And thereby we also must all " bear our crosses"... in our walk with Christ. Which means to personally battle with and against Satan's Evil daily; as we all bear our crosses for Christ....

Satan is Greater of Power through man, then people Know...!!!

If someone knows not where, or with whom the battle is waged... or Even if or when it should be fought; then the battle is lost already...
Satan has deceived people into thinking he doesn't exist in the personal lives of Christians...When Satan is of Great power through man...influencing man in all things related to God; seeking man to " Savor the things of flesh above the things of God"...a quote of Jesus about Satan's persona.

It is all about us, and our relationship to God, and righteous actions and will. To submit to God, opposed to ourselves and self desire.With Jesus we shall " want not"....Even if in jail or without things of flesh... Our spirit is eternal if of Jesus.

Satan is the strong man of fleshly desires..." Smoking,drinking,etc " and all manifestations of the flesh...Even when we Change channels on the television, or open the refrigerator we are in a Battle for "Power and principalities " in our mind and actions on the earth...Where our " Old man" desires are manifestly played out in life... " To do or not to do"..?

I can say with confidence; that those who claim that "Satan effects them not".. are the true " Slaves unto Satan" not knowing his persona... Satan tempted even Jesus with all things including Power and Hunger. Yet His flesh of " Jesus", did not control the Spirit of God within...

Again let me apologize unto all if my manner and speech, which can seem abrupt or demeaning; for I only speak as to "Satan persona in Judaic comprehension" or Early Christians theology; which is power through mans vanity; which all things are vanity unto the flesh that is not of God...God loves us, and would not allow us to be lost or destroyed by evil, if the evil was not of ourselves. Or " not common unto man" which is says " there is not other".. As scriptures say...Scriptures do not lie.

My premise and purpose of posts in thread; were to point out the absolute truth; that Scriptures can be interpreted differently by denominations and the faithful...And all denominational of men interpretations are not right, and that many deceive themselves in "self vanity interpretations" which Jews in Judaism are also guilty as to persona of Jesus, which we know: and that Christians also even to a greater degree, are guilty of vane interpretations of self vanity, proven out in multiple denominational groups, all varied in interpretations and concepts...Most under grace, saved by blood of Jesus.
As an
........example....The proclaimed perfection of theological interpretations of the Pope, espoused by early Catholics; Seems to be totally contradicted by " Flat earth" interpretations. Christians can err in vision; Only Jesus is perfect, which under the Grace of Jesus we are forgiven even for our "flat earth" false interpretations, which seems common to Christian denominational groups, to embellish out of vanity the word of God. When " add not, nor take away" from the word should be retained and held unto for all peoples and times. Jew and Christian..... I see, my short post on point, turned in to another rambling preaching sermon again. I apologize for my preachy nature in post..

I pray my words do not offend, God bless all Christians in forum, and all who use it.

[DeaconDan]

If I may with respect; take issue that " Jews were not of that opinion either"... I shall challenge any Christian; to find a devote Jew of today. Who believes that God gives power unto a demi God Satan outside of Gods power.

Jesus is the God of Abraham and Jacob. It is utter rubbish for you to talk about devout Jews who do not accept Jesus. (The period you placed after the word "today" is most appropriate!) Perhaps if you rephrased the challenge. Can any of us find a devout antichrist who... What authority should I place on the views of an antichrist? Why would you...

Personally, I could never believe a sinner, will or can sin, which is not of himself ; or by Temptation, that it's not "common unto man"..When scripture says..."Satan is the Spirit of disobedience".

You have directly misquoted the Bible to lead us to a wrong conclusion.

If I have not talking snakes, then neither did Jesus or anyone. It is parable.!!!!

How did Adam end up in Jesus' genealogy? Were the Bible's writers ignorant that the story with the serpent in the garden is just a parable?

[Spiritofprophecy]

Jesus is the God of Abraham and Jacob. It is utter rubbish for you to talk about devout Jews who do not accept Jesus. (The period you placed after the word "today" is most appropriate!) Perhaps if you rephrased the challenge. Can any of us find a devout antichrist who... What authority should I place on the views of an antichrist? Why would you...



You have directly misquoted the Bible to lead us to a wrong conclusion.



How did Adam end up in Jesus' genealogy? Were the Bible's writers ignorant that the story with the serpent in the garden is just a parable?

Greetings in the name of Jesus:

Dear DeaconDan:

Let me first apologize for giving you the impression, that I seek to mislead with " directly misquoted"... as to the word, if you give reference I shall give the verse. I must agree with you as to rubbish, for my lack of ability in being clear, would seem like rubbish.. I know Gods spiritual things are to be as Foolishness and rubble unto natural man's thinking..

In the desire for common ground, and meeting of minds; your comment " devout Jews who do not accept Jesus".. from a Christian perspective, I can fundamentally agree. Do the Jews get it right on things..? To miss who Jesus is, as the Messiah; is to miss the big thing, the "Big enchilada" in southwest American slang.

My use of the Term "Devout Jew", is from the Judaic Rabbi interpretation, which was appropriate unto the context of the term use. If I may explain. A true or real Jew in the Judaic faith, is someone who is Born of Jewish descent. Being determined as Jewish by authorities and State(mother is Jewish); one must have religious and heritage connections. So a Jew would be one of the Jewish/Judaic faith, and related family heritage.

As to punctuation, I do fall short, and fail in proof reading, and Just type and post.. Editing later sometimes.

My premise, that Christians interpret Satan differently than Judaism so interprets the text..This absolute truth; Has very little context as to Judaic failures to recognize Jesus as Messiah.

..... The texts are all Jewish texts and concepts, with Judaic symbolism; which a working knowledge of Hebrew is almost a must. We Christians are the Uninvited Guests, to a Jewish Judaic feast of God. Which invited Guest did not show up... We are the " Wild Grapes" growing in Gods vineyard.. We are also termed as by Jesus;;.. " The pollution of Gods inheritance". Which soon the invited guest shall return unto the feast of God, and Joined into Gods Kingdom. Of Course these are my opinions: which I shall entertain all perspectives of those who accept Jesus. which Unites us as One.

But I am interested in your " Directly Misquoted the Bible references" KJV please...

As to rewording the Challenge. Jews of Judaism, interpret the word differently. What can I say... If they interpreted it like Us, or Christians, they would then be Christian and not Jew. I only point out the differences, in which Prophets and time have established as truth. " Made Straight".

The very reasons that Jew, doesn't accept Jesus, is the root reason, why Jew and Christian are separated now. Jews/Judaism; is strictly Monotheism. They cannot accept 2 Gods, or 3 Gods and Trinity. When Isaiah 9:6, speaks of Child and many names of God, yet one God.

Which a Monotheistic concept of God and Jesus as One; I do believe is a Judaic/Christian truth. Jesus and the Father are One; But Jews think Christianity is Polytheistic with 2 Gods Father and Son. And they reject then the true Messiah. Jews do err as to Jesus, as to Messiah.

I pray my words do not offend, God bless all Christians in forum, and all who use it.

[Chuckt]

Greetings in the name of Jesus:

The very reasons that Jew, doesn't accept Jesus, is the root reason, why Jew and Christian are separated now. Jews/Judaism; is strictly Monotheism. They cannot accept 2 Gods, or 3 Gods and Trinity. When Isaiah 9:6, speaks of Child and many names of God, yet one God.

That isn't the reason. This is the reason:

2 Corinthians 3:13 And not as Moses, [which] put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which [vail] is done away in Christ.
2 Corinthians 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2 Corinthians 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.