Baptism

[Steveg]

If you are not born again, you will never enter into the kingdom of God...that is what Jesus says, in John 3:3-7. Water baptism does not save you!!!! You have to have the Spirit of God within your heart to save you! I will not peddle the Scriptures to you!

You either trust in the Scriptures, or you will be lost! Jesus said, "Verily, verily I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God...Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water AND OF THE SPIRIT, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the SPIRIT IS SPIRIT. Marvel not that I said unto thee, YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN."John 3:3-7. And Jesus is God!!!!!

I have warned you, and if you do not become born again, you will perish in the lake of fire.

I entirely agree with you Herald that we must be born again (or born from above). But baptism is the way we are born again.

We are born again by water and spirit.

he saved us through the bath of rebirth [baptism] and renewal by the Holy Spirit (Ti 3:5). You see water and spirit

When we are baptised we receive the Holy Spirit:
Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.You see water and spirit

Baptism saves you:
he saved us through the bath of rebirth [baptism]
This prefigured baptism, which saves you now

Are you saying Jesus was wrong when he said:
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved

I trust in the scriptures. It would seem that you don't.

[whirlwind]

John 3:3,5-6 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again(born from above), he cannot see the kingdom of God. (5-6) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Those verses say to me that to enter His kingdom we must be "born from above" and that entails two things....to be "born of water and of the Spirit." Together they are being "born from above."

The water part is achieved by our birth into the world...into our flesh life during the pregnancy process as we are enveloped in the bag of waters....we are "born of the flesh / born of water." Then we must be "born of the Spirit."

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but He that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

[Steveg]

John 3:3,5-6 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again(born from above), he cannot see the kingdom of God. (5-6) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Those verses say to me that to enter His kingdom we must be "born from above" and that entails two things....to be "born of water and of the Spirit." Together they are being "born from above."

The water part is achieved by our birth into the world...into our flesh life during the pregnancy process as we are enveloped in the bag of waters....we are "born of the flesh / born of water." Then we must be "born of the Spirit."

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but He that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

No, Jesus is not talking about amniotic fluid.

Look at the context.
First Jesus is baptised in the Jordan (Jn 1:29-34) with water and the Spirit (from above).
Then we get the wedding at Cana where Jesus turns water (in jars meant for ritual washing) into wine.
Then the conversation with Nicodemus about being born with water and Spirit.
Then Jesus and his disciples go baptising in water. It’s all about water, plain ordinary water.

There are examples in the gospels and epistles of baptism being with water. There is not a single mention in the gospels and epistles of amniotic fluid water.

Then Jesus refers to being born again. Nicodemus who tries speak of two events, birth and this “born again", but Jesus is only referring to one event and makes it clear. But Jesus corrects him and repeats that we must be born again of water and Spirit. Jesus does not say be born of water, and later born again of the Spirit.
It’s one event – born again of water and Spirit.

he saved us through the bath of rebirth [baptism] and renewal by the Holy Spirit (Ti 3:5). You see water and spirit. The bath of rebirth is not our first birth.

”……in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water. This prefigured baptism, which saves you now.
The flood was ordinary water not amniotic fluid.

Scripture links water with baptism

Phillip baptising the Ethiopian
As they travelled along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “Look, there is water. What is to prevent my being baptised?” (Acts 8:36)

Peter with Cornelius
Can anyone withhold the water for baptising these people (Acts 10:47)

Paul on his own baptism
Get up and have yourself baptised and your sins washed away(Acts 22:16)

Baptism is commanded by Christ:
Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit (Mt 28:19)
It was his final message to the apostles

Why was it commanded by Christ? Because, as he says:
Whoever believes and is baptised will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned. (Mk 16:16)

It’s that important. It’s about salvation. Jesus tells us that.
“Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. (Jn 3:5)

[whirlwind]

No, Jesus is not talking about amniotic fluid.

Look at the context.
First Jesus is baptised in the Jordan (Jn 1:29-34) with water and the Spirit (from above).

True. John baptized Him and then said....

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but He that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

John baptized with water but the baptism of Jesus is with the Spirit. That is the baptism we MUST receive to be of the kingdom.

Then we get the wedding at

Cana where Jesus turns water (in jars meant for ritual washing) into wine.
Then the conversation with Nicodemus about being born with water and Spirit.
Then Jesus and his disciples go baptising in water. It’s all about water, plain ordinary water.

There are examples in the gospels and epistles of baptism being with water. There is not a single mention in the gospels and epistles of amniotic fluid water.

But there is mention for Jesus tells us....

John 3:3,5-6 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again(born from above), he cannot see the kingdom of God. (5-6) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

A man "born of water" is "born of the flesh and is flesh." That would be being born into flesh, in the water....amniotic fluid. Then He tells us about being born of the Spirit. To be of the kingdom both must be accomplished.

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Immersion in water isn't being "sown a natural body" or being "born of flesh."

Then Jesus refers to being born again. Nicodemus who tries speak of two events, birth and this “born again", but Jesus is only referring to one event and makes it clear. But Jesus corrects him and repeats that we must be born again of water and Spirit. Jesus does not say be born of water, and later born again of the Spirit.
It’s one event – born again of water and Spirit.

Being "born again" is mistranslated...it is "born from above." A man, to be "born from above" must be born of water and of spirit. Born into flesh, into our natural body and then being indwelled by His Spirit to be born into our living spiritual body. Then....we are of His kingdom.

he saved us through the bath of rebirth [baptism] and renewal by the Holy Spirit (Ti 3:5). You see water and spirit. The bath of rebirth is not our first birth.

”……in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water. This prefigured baptism, which saves you now.
The flood was ordinary water not amniotic fluid.

The water didn't save Noah.

Scripture links water with baptism

Phillip baptising the Ethiopian
As they travelled along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “Look, there is water. What is to prevent my being baptised?” (Acts 8:36)

Peter with Cornelius
Can anyone withhold the water for baptising these people (Acts 10:47)

Paul on his own baptism
Get up and have yourself baptised and your sins washed away(Acts 22:16)

Baptism is commanded by Christ:
Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit (Mt 28:19)
It was his final message to the apostles[SIZE=3


[/SIZE] Why was it commanded by Christ? Because, as he says:
Whoever believes and is baptised will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned. (Mk 16:16)

The baptism Christ speaks of is that of His Spirit...not water.

It’s that important. It’s about salvation. Jesus tells us that.
“Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. (Jn 3:5)

Being baptized in water is a good thing. It is a public declaration of our belief in Him but....it is not the baptism we must receive to be of His kingdom.

[Onesiphorus]

DEar Steveg

I ask you once again therefore ,on .a practical point

I believe by faith CHrist Jesus is my Lord and Savior

I AM NOT WATER BAPTISED

Are you saying I am not saved by the perfect sacrifice of CHRIST JESUS

And

It is by the ritual of Water Baptism and not by the blood and the cross that I am justified

2 questions ....2 answers please



I also ask that

IF I were water baptised BUT not a member of the Roman Church ,then would I be saved

1 question ...1 answer

YES OR NO WILL BE SUFFICIENT

This thread is concerning divination so answer and we can then return to topic

[Steveg]

Baptism saves us.

he saved us through the bath of rebirth [baptism] (Ti 3:5)

This prefigured baptism, which saves you now (1Pet 3:20)

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved (Mk 16:16)

Baptism is with water.

”……in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water. This prefigured baptism, which saves you now. (1 Pet 3:20-21).

Get up and have yourself baptised and your sins washed away(Acts 22:16)

Can anyone withhold the water for baptising these people (Acts 10:47)

As they travelled along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “Look, there is water. What is to prevent my being baptised?” (Acts 8:36)

Let us approach with a sincere heart and in absolute trust, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed in pure water. (Heb 10:22)

Baptism brings the Holy Spirit

he saved us through the bath of rebirth [baptism] and renewal by the Holy Spirit (Ti 3:5)

Repent and be baptised, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38)

When Jesus is baptised in the Jordan the Spirit descends
It happened in those days that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was baptised in the Jordan by John. On coming up out of the water he saw the heavens being torn open and the Spirit, like a dove, descending upon him. (Mk 1:9-10)

Baptism forgives sins

Repent and be baptised, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins (Acts 2:38)

Get up and have yourself baptised and your sins washed away(Acts 22:16)

Even John’s baptism was for the forgiveness of sin
John (the) Baptist appeared in the desert proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins (Mk 1:4)

Therefore when Peter declares that they must be baptised for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38) he must be referring to baptism in water.

Baptism brings new life in Christ
We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life.(Rom 6:4)

You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. And even when you were dead (in) transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he brought you to life along with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions (Col 2:12-13).

Baptism is how we become disciples of Christ – put on Christ

Or are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? (Rom 6:3) For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. (Gal 3:27)

That why Jesus commanded:
Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit (Mt 28:19)
It’s how you become a disciple of Christ.

Being baptized in water is a good thing. It is a public declaration of our belief in Him but....it is not the baptism we must receive to be of His kingdom.

Baptism is not just a public declaration of faith in Jesus

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved(Mk 16:16) Jesus is saying that belief on its own is not enough.

Repent and be baptised, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins (Acts 2:38). This is not something symbolic.

When Paul was baptised this was no public declaration – it was to have his sins washed away.

When the Ethiopian was baptised this was no public declaration – there was no public.

When the jailer was baptised this was no public declaration – there was no public.

Jesus commanded baptism –it is that important.
Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit (Mt 28:19)

Baptism is never declared to be just symbolic.

John baptised with water.
Jesus and his disciples baptised with water
Phillip baptised with water
Paul was baptised with water
Paul speaks of baptism by water
Peter baptised with water


John 3:3-10
3. Jesus answered and said to him, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.”
- or born again; it involves a rebirth, a second birth
4. Nicodemus said to him, “How can a person once grown old be born again? Surely he cannot reenter his mother’s womb and be born again, can he?”
- Nicodemus is thinking of physical birth

5. Jesus answered, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.
- Jesus is telling Nicodemus this is a different king to birth, a birth of water and Spirit. He is not saying there are two births, one of water and one of Spirit, but that the new birth, the rebirth, is by water and Spirit.

6. What is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit.
- the natural birth is of the flesh, but the rebirth is of the spirit (but is effected by water and spirit)

7. Do not be amazed that I told you, ‘You must be born from above.’
8 . The wind blows where it wills, and you can hear the sound it makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes; so it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9. Nicodemus answered and said to him, “How can this happen?”
- Nicodemus hasn’t understood
10 . Jesus answered and said to him, “You are the teacher of Israel and you do not understand this?”
- Nicodemus is a scholar – he should have understood the words of Ez 36:25-27
I will sprinkle clean water upon you to cleanse you from all your impurities, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. I will give you a new heart and place a new spirit within you, taking from your bodies your stony hearts and giving you natural hearts. I will put my spirit within you and make you live by my statutes, careful to observe my decrees.
You see water and spirit.

Immediately after this conversation with Nicodemus Jesus and his disciples go baptising with water. A co-incidence? I think not.

So where does that leave
Jesus answered, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit (Jn 3:5)
Clearly baptism with water.

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but He that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
John baptized with water but the baptism of Jesus is with the Spirit. That is the baptism we MUST receive to be of the kingdom.

Jesus also said
While meeting with them, he enjoined them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for “the promise of the Father about which you have heard me speak; for John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the holy Spirit.” (Acts 1:4-5)

This was fulfilled at Pentecost. But the baptism of the Holy Spirit was for believers. They were already disciples.

Baptism with water is how you become a disciple. Baptism with the Holy Spirit is for those who are already disciples.

The water didn't save Noah.

Noah and his family were saved, others perished. Peter says This prefigured baptism, which saves you now. A pre-figuring doesn’t have to be exact in every detail, but Peter is quite clear that baptism saves us.

But there is mention for Jesus tells us....
John 3:3,5-6 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again(born from above), he cannot see the kingdom of God. (5-6) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

A man "born of water" is "born of the flesh and is flesh." That would be being born into flesh, in the water....amniotic fluid. Then He tells us about being born of the Spirit. To be of the kingdom both must be accomplished.

Except that Jesus says we must be born again of water and Spirit. Our re-birth involves both water and Spirit. This is confirmed by Paul when he says to Titus:
he saved us through the bath of rebirth [baptism] and renewal by the Holy Spirit (Ti 3:5).

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Immersion in water isn't being "sown a natural body" or being "born of flesh."

In 1Cor 15:44 Paul is speaking about our existence after the resurrection. It has nothing to do with being born again in this life.


Scripture is very clear that baptism (with water) saves us, forgives our sins, gives us new life, makes us disciples of Christ.

No-where does it say that Baptism in the Holy Spirit saves us, forgives sins, gives us new life or makes us disciples of Christ.

[whirlwind]

Baptism brings the Holy Spirit

Yes, baptism does but not water baptism. I have never been water baptized and His Spirit guides my life.

Baptism forgives sins

No. Jesus forgives sins...His blood washes us from our sins.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful Witness, and the first Begotten of the dead, and the Prince of the kings of the earth. Unto Him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in His own blood,

Baptism is how we become disciples of Christ – put on Christ

Baptism of His Spirit is how we become His witnesses....not water baptism.

[/SIZE] When Paul was baptised this was no public declaration – it was to have his sins washed away.

When the Ethiopian was baptised this was no public declaration – there was no public.

When the jailer was baptised this was no public declaration – there was no public.[SIZE=3]

True. It was a declaration between God and the jailer, Ethiopian, etc. And, as I said....water baptism is good but it is NOT what causes His Spirit to indwell us, it is NOT what saves us, it is NOT what washes our sins away. Declaring to God that you give your life to Him and that you repent of your sins can be done with or without the water baptism. I personally believe it should be done but it is NOT required. What is required is the baptism of His Spirit and you won't find that being given out by the pastor doing the dunking. As all things...it is between the individual and our Father.

This was fulfilled at Pentecost. But the baptism of the Holy Spirit was for believers. They were already disciples.

Baptism with water is how you become a disciple. Baptism with the Holy Spirit is for those who are already disciples.

I am His disciple. I was called....I was immersed in His living water....in His Spirit, in His Words....not in a baptismal pool.

Noah and his family were saved, others perished. Peter says This prefigured baptism, which saves you now. A pre-figuring doesn’t have to be exact in every detail, but Peter is quite clear that baptism saves us.

Water didn't save Noah. The ark saved Noah...the ark that represents His Word. Peter is correct...baptism saves us but it is the baptism of His Spirit that does the job.

Scripture is very clear that baptism (with water) saves us, forgives our sins, gives us new life, makes us disciples of Christ.

No-where does it say that Baptism in the Holy Spirit saves us, forgives sins, gives us new life or makes us disciples of Christ.

John baptized with water...unto repentance. Christ baptizes us with His Spirit...

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but He that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

There are many that have been baptized of water and yet don't have His Spirit, for instance....

Luke 7:29-31 And all the people that heard Him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of Him. And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like?

How does one receive the baptism of His Spirit?

Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received His word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

The baptism of His Spirit allows us to be of His kingdom. As shown below...water baptism isn't part of receiving it. These souls received the Holy Spirit and THEN Peter commanded them to be baptized in His name.

Acts 10:46-48 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Baptism by His Spirit joins us to His One Body. We drink that Spirit....not get dipped in it.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

[Steveg]

Yes, baptism does but not water baptism. I have never been water baptized and His Spirit guides my life.

We receive the Holy Spirit in (water baptism). The “baptism of the Holy Spirit” is a special outpouring of the Holy Spirit to empower us for service in the kingdom..

Repent and be baptised, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38)

When Jesus was baptised in the Jordan the Holy Spirit descended on him
It happened in those days that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was baptised in the Jordan by John. On coming up out of the water he saw the heavens being torn open and the Spirit, like a dove, descending upon him. (Mk 1:9-10)

No. Jesus forgives sins...His blood washes us from our sins.
Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful Witness, and the first Begotten of the dead, and the Prince of the kings of the earth. Unto Him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in His own blood,

Picky pick picky – you don’t like my phasing. Let me re-phrase it.

When we are baptised our sins are forgiven.
Get up and have yourself baptised and your sins washed away(Acts 22:16)

Even John’s baptism was for the forgiveness of sin
John (the) Baptist appeared in the desert proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins (Mk 1:4)

Do you think the baptism instituted by Christ is less efficacious?

Baptism of His Spirit is how we become His witnesses....not water baptism.

I said disciples. Do you know that when a Rabbit took a student as a disciple he supervised a tevilah (ritual washing) in a mikvah (ritual bath)


Or are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? (Rom 6:3) For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. (Gal 3:27)


[QUOTE=whirlwind;113024]
True. It was a declaration between God and the jailer, Ethiopian, etc. And, as I said....water baptism is good but it is NOT what causes His Spirit to indwell us, it is NOT what saves us, it is NOT what washes our sins away. Declaring to God that you give your life to Him and that you repent of your sins can be done with or without the water baptism. I personally believe it should be done but it is NOT required. What is required is the baptism of His Spirit and you won't find that being given out by the pastor doing the dunking. As all things...it is between the individual and our Father.

I am His disciple. I was called....I was immersed in His living water....in His Spirit, in His Words....not in a baptismal pool.

Not what washes sins away?
Get up and have yourself baptised and your sins washed away(Acts 22:16)

Water didn't save Noah. The ark saved Noah...the ark that represents His Word. Peter is correct...baptism saves us but it is the baptism of His Spirit that does the job.

”……in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water. This prefigured baptism, which saves you now.

Peter is referring to baptism with water.

John baptized with water...unto repentance. Christ baptizes us with His Spirit...
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but He that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Baptism is used as a metaphor. John and Jesus were describing some thing new, a new outpouring of the Spirit, which they had no experience of, by comparing it to baptism (with water) which is something they knew and understood.

Pentecost was that experience, but it was for those already disciples.

Baptism continued to be the way people came into the new covenant, to become disciples.

There are many that have been baptized of water and yet don't have His Spirit, for instance....
Luke 7:29-31 And all the people that heard Him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of Him. And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like?

That was John’s baptism. John’s baptism didn’t give the Spirit.

How does one receive the baptism of His Spirit?
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received His word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

That is baptism with water. That’s what Peter understood and practiced as baptism.
Can anyone withhold the water for baptising these people (Acts 10:47)

Imparting the Holy Spirit was something different.


[QUOTE=whirlwind;113024]
The baptism of His Spirit allows us to be of His kingdom. As shown below...water baptism isn't part of receiving it. These souls received the Holy Spirit and THEN Peter commanded them to be baptized in His name.
Acts 10:46-48 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

God did something different here to teach Peter. That’s why Peter was surprised.

In Acts 8 we find Phillip (the deacon) in Samaria baptising with water. We know he baptised with water because that is how he baptised the Ethiopian. When he had done this Peter and John (apostles) came and laid hands on them because the Holy Spirit had not fallen on them yet – i.e. had not been poured out.

Similarly in Acts with the twelve men in Ephesus Paul had them baptised first, and then he laid hands on them for the out pouring of the Spirit.
5. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6. And when Paul laid (his) hands on them, the holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.

God poured out his spirit on people several times in history

When they were going from there to Gibeah, a band of prophets met him, and the spirit of God rushed upon him [Saul], so that he joined them in their prophetic state. (1Sam 10:10)

Then Samuel, with the horn of oil in hand, anointed him in the midst of his brothers; and from that day on, the spirit of the Lord rushed upon David. (1 Sam 16:13)

That doesn’t mean they came into the kingdom at that point. Nor does it with Cornelius. Peter knew he had to baptise him with water for that.

Similarly Paul had an experience of the Holy Spirit on the road to Damascus but he still had to be baptised with water for the forgiveness of sins.

Baptism by His Spirit joins us to His One Body. We drink that Spirit....not get dipped in it.
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

By (water) baptism we receive the Holy Spirit and become children of God, heirs to the kingdom, partakers of the new covenant.


This is the teaching of the early church:
"Regarding baptism, baptise thus. After giving the forgoing instructions, "Baptise in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit in running water. But if you have no running water, baptise in any other..." (Didache)

For Christ also said, 'Except ye be born again, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.' Now, that it is impossible for those who have once been born to enter into their mothers' wombs, is manifest to all. And how those who have sinned and repent shall escape their sins, is declared by Esaias the prophet, as I wrote above; he thus speaks: 'Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from your souls; learn to do well…And though your sins be as scarlet, I will make them white like wool; and though they be as crimson, I will make them white as snow...And for this [rite] we have learned from the apostles this reason. Since at our birth we were born without our own knowledge or choice, by our parents coming together, and were brought up in bad habits and wicked training; in order that we may not remain the children of necessity and of ignorance, but may become the children of choice and knowledge, and may obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe; he who leads to the layer the person that is to be washed calling him by this name alone…And this washing is called illumination, because they who learn these things are illuminated in their understandings. And in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and in the name of the Holy Ghost, who through the prophets foretold all things about Jesus, he who is illuminated is washed." Justin Martyr, First Apology, 61 (A.D. 110-165).

"Moreover, the things proceeding from the waters were blessed by God, that this also might be a sign of men's being destined to receive repentance and remission of sins, through the water and laver of regeneration,--as many as come to the truth, and are born again, and receive blessing from God." Theopilus of Antioch, To Autolycus, 2:16 (A.D. 181).

" 'And dipped himself,' says [the Scripture], 'seven times in Jordan.' It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but it served as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions; being spiritually regenerated as new-born babes, even as the Lord has declared: 'Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.'" Irenaeus, Fragment, 34 (A.D. 190).

"When, however, the prescript is laid down that 'without baptism, salvation is attainable by none" (chiefly on the ground of that declaration of the Lord, who says, "Unless one be born of water, he hath not life.'" Tertullian, On Baptism, 12:1 (A.D. 203).

"But give me now your best attention, I pray you, for I wish to go back to the fountain of life, and to view the fountain that gushes with healing. The Father of immortality sent the immortal Son and Word into the world, who came to man in order to wash him with water and the Spirit; and He, begetting us again to incorruption of soul and body, breathed into us the breath (spirit) of life, and endued us with an incorruptible panoply. If, therefore, man has become immortal, he will also be God. And if he is made God by water and the Holy Spirit after the regeneration of the layer he is found to be also joint-heir with Christ after the resurrection from the dead. Wherefore I preach to this effect: Come, all ye kindreds of the nations, to the immortality of the baptism." Hippolytus of Rome, Discourse on the Holy Theophany, 8 (A.D. 217).

"But you will perhaps say, What does the, baptism of water contribute towards the worship of God? In the first place, because that which hath pleased God is fulfilled. In the second place, because, when yon are regenerated and born again of water and of God, the frailty of your former birth, which you have through men, is cut off, and so at length you shall be able to attain salvation; hut otherwise it is impossible. For thus hath the true prophet testified to its with an oath: 'Verily I say to you, That unless a man is born again of water, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Therefore make haste; for there is in these waters a certain power of mercy which was borne upon them at the beginning, and acknowledges those who are baptized under the name of the threefold sacrament, and rescues them from future punishments, presenting as a gift to God the souls that are consecrated by baptism. Betake yourselves therefore to these waters, for they alone can quench the violence of the future fire; and he who delays to approach to them, it is evident that the idol of unbelief remains in him, and by it be is prevented from hastening to the waters which confer salvation. For whether you be righteous or unrighteous, baptism is necessary for you in every respect: for the righteous, that perfection may be accomplished in him, and he may be born again to God; for the unrighteous, that pardon may he vouchsafed him of the sins which he has committed in ignorance. Therefore all should hasten to he born again to God without delay, because the end of every one's life is uncertain." Recognitions of Clement, 6:9 (A.D. 221).

[whirlwind]

I'm afraid we will never agree on this subject. But, I enjoyed the discussion.

[Steveg]

I'm afraid we will never agree on this subject. But, I enjoyed the discussion.

ditto - and I did some useful research.