Baptism

[Faith]

A lot of things confused in some of the posts.

Christ says " Not all who call me Lord. Lord, shall enter the Kingdom of heaven."
We see the clear distinction in the teaching of the 5 wise virgins and the 5 foolish. All receive their faith by the Holy Spirit the oil. All believe in the bridegroom Christ and wait for his return. But only 5 remain topped up in the oil. The Lord Jesus says, " If you love me you will keep my commandment.
It is in loving God and each other, we love Christ and so receive the Holy Spirit. It is in obeying Christ he reveals himself to us and he and the Father come and live with us and make their abode with us. The Spirit does not speak of himself but rather he gives us what is given to him.

The real baptism of the Spirit is not just about belief and the faith we receive at the time of belief. It is the continual walking in the truth which Spirit gives us and hearing his words and teachings. Revelation is very clear on this message. If you have ears then listen to what the Spirit is teaching.
Revelation is about life now for believers. You are already in your end times.
The end times is not just an event when the beast rises and the Son of Perdition.

Love Faith.xx

[Pariah]

Some very good points Onesi, but what about when Jesus was baptised? Why did He insist on being baptised by John, even though He was without sin?

I see baptism, NOT as a necessity for salvation (that is what the cross was for), but as a proclamation that we WILL be identified with Jesus in his death and resurrection, that we are choosing to follow Him with all our heart, mind, and strength. I have resisted being baptised for the reason that I know the commitment baptism sybolizes, but feared that my commitment would mean nothing if I fell again to sin. I wanted to be sure of my commitment to follow Him with all my heart, mind, and strength. I know that I am ready.

Varlen (The VMan)

Hi Varlen,

I am not sure I understand where you are at with the Lord yet. Pardon me for my inquiry, but your quote sounded like you are still working yourself up to that commitment to follow Christ with all your heart,mind,and strength.

Do you believe that your commitment to follow Jesus a necessity for salvation?

Do you believe that the keeping of your commitment to follow Jesus... to never sin again, is an indicator of your heart,mind,and strength in following Jesus? (Remember Peter when he believed he would not deny the Lord?)

May I suggest coming to Jesus without looking to yourself to follow Him, but look to Him to help you follow Him by faith alone without making that commitment to do so?

John 1:12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

2 Corinthians 3:4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Is He not the One that enables us to minister in serving Him?

2 Corinthians 4: 5For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. 6For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

The people even asked Jesus if they needed to do anything to do God's work in them.

John 6:28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

I was right there with you, brother, under that commitment to follow Christ as it divided my mind, making me double-minded in my walk with Him. I striven to do the best I can in keeping my commitment to follow Him, but I kept failing. Everytime I turn to the Lord for help, He set me up on my feet, but I went back to trying to keep my commitment to follow Christ, thinking I owed Him to keep on trying. I was a yo yo. I had quit being a deacon twice because I felt like a fraud.

Years later I was working out at a warehouse where I used to work at. I had developed a bad habit of cussing to let go of stress whenever no one was around. I mean, I would yell it loud and clear in venting my frustration.

One day, I had picked up a pamphlet that convicted me of the words of my mouth through the scriptures given in it. On the back of the pamphlet, a religious guantlet was tossed in making this covenent with my mouth to which I applied towards not cussing ever again. Well, the next day, I was worse than I ever was before. The devil seemed like he was there as a thought entered my head that I as not His, for if I was His, He would have helped me keep my covenant. I had stopped listening to the devil, and being at my wits end, I asked the Lord why He wasn't helping me.

In a still small voice, not audible, but inwardly, I heard Him. "You made the covenant. You said you were going to do it. I made the Covenant, and I said I am going to do it. All I asked from you is to believe on Me."

I was humbled that day in 1994. It wasn't much later when Promise Keepers' went nationwide across all the denomenational churches. I felt obliged to warn my brothers. At that time I was going to two Bible studies. One group that cme from the PK said that it wasn't about making promises to god, but to man.. to help us be accountable in our walk. Another group testified that it was not about making promises to man, but to God for they cannot rely on man to be there when they need him. I didn't go to any PK event, but I read enough of it to know it was about both. As I tried to speak against it, one catholic/mason pointed out that isn't the commitment to follow Christ like a promise? Then he answered as I was dumbstruck, "Sure it is.." That was when I blurted out that no more will I be identified by my commitment to follow Christ but declare my faith in Him that He will enable me to follow Him by faith alone.

Truly, the altar call for the commitment to follow Christ and the PK program is something that the call of mighty men and nobles would respond to, but that is not how we are supposed to be called. There is no strength in surrendering. That is why the poor in spirit are blessed because they know they can't do it as all eyes and hopes are on Jesus, Our Saviour and Good Shepherd.

When I confronted the leader of the ministry that put out that pamphlet, he had said I wasn't trying hard enough in keeping my covenant with my mouth.

Galatians 3:1-3 & Philippians 1:6,9-11 & Galatians 5:1

I have confidence that Jesus shall finish His workmanship in me in His day as I placed my trust in the Lord to do it. (I cuss a whole lot less as it no longer has dominion over me). He had alot to work with but He is with me always as I trust him to prevent me from falling and to present me faultless as all my hopes are on Him to do it.

1 John 3:3 & Jude 1:24-25

Jesus came to save sinners from their sins so that sin will not have dominion over us as He will succor us when we are tempted Hebrews 2:18 & provide us the escape 1 Corinthians 10:13 so as Jesus taught this prayer to say to the Father in Heaven, He will lead us away from temptation and deliver us from the evil one because Thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory forever. Amen.

So don't let that commitment to follow Christ keep you from coming to Him. It is a thief. Nothing should be inbetween us and Jesus as a means to Him. John 10:7-8 Jesus is the Door, not the commitment to follow Christ. Jesus shall be Lord over us... not the commitment to follow Christ. Our hopes are on Him not only for eternal life but for the abundant life as living as His by faith. Why else is it written simply that the just shall live by faith? It is a relationship of trust, not a religious yoke. Jesus is the Good News to man.

May the Lord cause the increase for I know it took me awhile to see that Jesus asked me to follow Him... not make a commitment to do so as if by keeping that commitement will enable me to follow Him. He is My Enabler.

Matthew 11:28-30 & Hebrews 4:1-16

[Pariah]

The Lord Jesus says, " If you love me you will keep my commandment. It is in loving God and each other, we love Christ and so receive the Holy Spirit. It is in obeying Christ he reveals himself to us and he and the Father come and live with us and make their abode with us.

The real baptism of the Spirit is not just about belief and the faith we receive at the time of belief. It is the continual walking in the truth which Spirit gives us and hearing his words and teachings.

Hi Faith,

You may find myself opposing your quote, but hear me out, please.

I need the Holy Spirit in me to live the christian life. It is not in me to love my enemies, but with Jesus' help, I can. The love factor is not contingent for receiving the Holy Ghost. The love factor is the result of being a new creation in Christ Jesus. He loved us first before we loved Him.

The commandment spoken of that is contingent in receiving the promise of the Holy Ghost is His invitation: John 14:6 From that invitation we follow His sayings about His relationship with the Father. Then He declared the importance of His invitation by declaring it to be His commandment in John 14:15-17 which is the contingency for receiving the promise of the Spirit. His commandment could not be about everything He had taught for then we would never have received the Holy Ghost. It could not be about loving one another in order to receive the Holy Ghost for we need Christ in us to love others as well as live as His. We have confirmation in the letters to the epistles in Ephesians 1:12-15 of the simplicity of the Gospel in how one has received the promise of the Spirit.

But loving one another is one of the commandment following the necessity for salvation which could summarize the simplicity of living the christian life.

1 John 3:22And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Do note the emboldened part of the last verse. Jesus Christ gave us the Holy Spirit. The former unboldened part of the verse is testifying of us abiding in Him when we are loving one another. I can understand how you could read that loving one another is contingent in receiving the Holy Ghost ( I am not sure if it was these verses or not from which you got that perspective), but loving one another is the result of Christ being in us. we could not do so otherwise as loving our enemies requires Our Enabler to do so.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Anyway, the real baptism of the Spirit is a one time done deal. Jesus promised to be with us always even when we go astray or fall into sin. If we trust Him to lead us as the Good Shepherd He is, He will restore us to the path of righteousness for His name's sake... even for those that get left behind at the pre-tribulation rapture event of the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. Walking IN the Spirit as opposed to the flesh is done by keeping our eyes on Our Good Shepherd as we rest in Him to help us to live as His.

Galatians 5:14-26

2 Timothy 2:19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Anyway, I hope the Lord may cause the increase. Amen.

[Herald]

Baptism does not save you, you must be born again. John 3:3-7.

[Steveg]

Baptism does not save you, you must be born again. John 3:3-7.

You are born again in Baptism

[Herald]

No, you are not. Jesus said, "Verily, Verily I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God...Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water AND OF THE SPIRIT, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is BORN OF THE SPIRIT IS SPIRIT...Marvel not that I said unto thee, YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN." John 3:3-7. If you think baptism will save you, you will have a rude awakening on the Day of Judgment.

To have the Spirit of Christ within you, you will have eternal life...just that simple.

[Steveg]

No, you are not. Jesus said, "Verily, Verily I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God...Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water AND OF THE SPIRIT, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is BORN OF THE SPIRIT IS SPIRIT...Marvel not that I said unto thee, YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN." John 3:3-7.

To have the Spirit of Christ within you, you will have eternal life...just that simple.

Jesus said, "Verily, Verily I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God...Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be BORN OF WATER and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit...Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again." John 3:3-7.


”……in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water. This prefigured baptism, which saves you now. (1 Pet 3:20-21).

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved (Mk 16:16)

Can’t get much clearer than that.

[Herald]

If you are not born again, you will never enter into the kingdom of God. Baptism does not save you, only being born again. You must have His Spirit within you, to be born again.

In Psalm 119, the word, "Word," Is used interchangeably with, "law," "commandments," "judgments," "precepts," "statutes," "testimonies." Courtesy of Dr. R.C. Sproul.

The Old Testament version of being born again: "A NEW HEART also will I give you, and A NEW SPIRIT will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments and do them." Ezek 36:26,27. When His Spirit is within us, we are empowered to obey His Word/His law,

[Steveg]

If you are not born again, you will never enter into the kingdom of God. Baptism does not save you, only being born again. You must have His Spirit within you, to be born again.

In Psalm 119, the word, "Word," Is used interchangeably with, "law," "commandments," "judgments," "precepts," "statutes," "testimonies." Courtesy of Dr. R.C. Sproul.

The Old Testament version of being born again: "A NEW HEART also will I give you, and A NEW SPIRIT will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments and do them." Ezek 36:26,27. When His Spirit is within us, we are empowered to obey His Word/His law,

And how do we get the Holy Spirit in us? Well Peter tells us:
Peter (said) to them, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38)

…be baptised…. and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit

I realise that scriptures like these are a bit inconvenient for you, but they are quite clear.

Jesus said, "Verily, Verily I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God...Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be BORN OF WATER and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit...Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again." John 3:3-7.


”……in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water. This prefigured baptism, which saves you now. (1 Pet 3:20-21).

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved (Mk 16:16)

Can’t get much clearer than that.

Then there is:
he saved us through the bath of rebirth and renewal by the holy Spirit (Ti 3:5)

Herald – baptism is how we get born again - saved.

[Herald]

If you are not born again, you will never enter into the kingdom of God...that is what Jesus says, in John 3:3-7. Water baptism does not save you!!!! You have to have the Spirit of God within your heart to save you! I will not peddle the Scriptures to you!

You either trust in the Scriptures, or you will be lost! Jesus said, "Verily, verily I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God...Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water AND OF THE SPIRIT, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the SPIRIT IS SPIRIT. Marvel not that I said unto thee, YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN."John 3:3-7. And Jesus is God!!!!!

I have warned you, and if you do not become born again, you will perish in the lake of fire.