Hell is a turn off

[Absolute Truth]

The Holy Spirit confirms in way less than 50 pages

The spirit confirms in us like flashes of lightning but to convey that understanding to others all must be given compared to scripture which is not one sentence responses. It is by the foolishness of preaching and that preaching is exhaustive

God Bless, Dave

[inquisitive]

I would not gainsay any point with you, you mix up the point in a mountain of words

indirectly you are stating that I do not have ears to hear and I do not have eyes to see. You have label (judged) me as a wrong sheppard.

I am saying that in regard to anyone reading this post, that God only have them see and hear the Truth, and i did not specify you as a wrong shepherd

You are claiming that all I have and all I teach does not come from god so if it does not come from God as you state then in essence what you are stating is that it comes from Satan (Or beelsabub as the Pharasees charged).

When did i say this

I believe, these are very dangerous accusations without having the eyes and ears you claim I do not have which should give you the ability and wisdom to look to the scriptures and absolutely prove that your oppinions of me are correct before you throw your labels and judgement on me.

Again i did not state this, in fact i did not even state that my response was directed at you, this thread is under the headings 'Grow in the Lord' and 'Theology' well God help any new christians looking to 'Grow in the Lord' reading this thread, so why have you taken such offence to it.

The only difference in my theology from yours is that I believe according to scripture that th lake of fire is corrective and medicinal with a purpose for a limited duration while Christianity believes it is for eternity.

Is this a small or a large difference, and what is my theology

Anyways, I will not return the offence that you have placed on me as I understand that you know not what you do as you err not knowing the scriptures.

I have not placed any offence on you, but thanks for not placing any on myself

The spirit confirms in us like flashes of lightning but to convey that understanding to others all must be given compared to scripture which is not one sentence responses. It is by the foolishness of preaching and that preaching is exhaustive

For one, words are not enough to describe God or anything pertaining to God, coming from God, and secondly, im not a preacher or a teacher

I will say however, in the quick reaction and length of your reply, you are extremely defensive of the position you stand in, and feel the need to defend at great lengths, what it is your putting across, plenty of people have shown you various scripture in this thread regarding to hell, the point has also been raised, that time is irrelevant once it gets to that stage of spiritual, so what does it matter wether its a day, 10 or a 1000 as you read and understand it, when that time will become nothing, so if then time becomes nothing, what happens to those in the lake of fire being purified, what measure is used, to know when its 'time' for them to come out?

[canny]

what measure is used, to know when its 'time' for them to come out?

Ya would need some good oven mits

[Absolute Truth]

I would not gainsay any point with you, you mix up the point in a mountain of words

What preacher pastor or teacher or even author of scripture do not use mountains of words to convey why, what, and how they draw their conclusions? I am no different and I show concisively that I am rightly dividing the word rather than merely display my opinions and speculations concerning my theology. I show and prove through scripture and this takes some time and many words to do so.

I am saying that in regard to anyone reading this post, that God only have them see and hear the Truth, and i did not specify you as a wrong shepherd. When did i say this

I would just ask you to look back on your post to answer this.

Again i did not state this, in fact i did not even state that my response was directed at you, this thread is under the headings 'Grow in the Lord' and 'Theology' well God help any new christians looking to 'Grow in the Lord' reading this thread, so why have you taken such offence to it.

As i said, I do not take offence to it but I will however still give you the what's, why's and how's to give you clraity and show that I acknowledge your opinions

Is this a small or a large difference, and what is my theology

This is a large difference but my point is that I am a child of God in Christ. All that the scriptures bear out that is required for one to be a child of God I have followed and I never forsake these fundimentals. The subjects at hand are controversial to say the least but they in no way make me an enemy or offence to the gospil of Christ. I am a believer whereas your post has made me out to be some kind of false teacher or someone who is trying to lead others astray yet not one point in all of my discussions did i attempt to do any such thing. Infact I have been proclaiming loud and clear that God the Father will have His complete will come to pass through Christ. That Christ will be 100% triumphant in saving the enetire creation. This falls far short of being one who would draw people away from Him.

What I see is that this was directed at me but without cause. I cannot see one post in all of this thread from anyone that would justify you stating these words in your post whatsoever. So, If they are not directed at me where exactly are they directed?

I have not placed any offence on you, but thanks for not placing any on myself

Not a problem. I am not here to cast stones and stifle anyone and their ideas. I am kind of used to others doing that to me and I count it all joy as this is what the Lord had to endure Himself so I guess Im at home with it now .

For one, words are not enough to describe God or anything pertaining to God, coming from God, and secondly, im not a preacher or a teacher

No they are not, and that is why God calls it "the FOOLISHNESS of preaching" because literally God does not need us to spread His word. He is perfectly capable of doing it Himself and besides, I could preach to 6 billion people on this earth and no matter how clear and concise I am, not one will get it unless God draws them in and gives them of His spirit to lead them to believe.

I will say however, in the quick reaction and length of your reply, you are extremely defensive of the position you stand in, and feel the need to defend at great lengths, what it is your putting across, plenty of people have shown you various scripture in this thread regarding to hell, the point has also been raised, that time is irrelevant once it gets to that stage of spiritual, so what does it matter wether its a day, 10 or a 1000 as you read and understand it, when that time will become nothing, so if then time becomes nothing, what happens to those in the lake of fire being purified, what measure is used, to know when its 'time' for them to come out?

In avoiding repeating myself again I will ask you to truly examine all my posts in order to see that there is nowhere in scripture stating WHEN time will end. As far as God has revealed everything is done with the ages and all we know of beyond that is that there will be a consumation of the ages and there is nothing written in scripture to give any idea of what happens beyond the ages. We do not even know if time will ever cease to be since God created time and in reality time is truly relative. Without the sun and moon we would never have day and night or seasons etc. But time does continue regardless of their presence. The only thing that would or could change is our consciousness or need to be concerned with time. God may have many more ages in the future if He plans on other things for His sons and daughters to do. We are created beings andtherefore cannot be eternal. We will live forever since we will have immortality (deathlessness) but as far as being eternal only God Himself is eternal since He had no beginning and has always been.

Nowhere in scripture can you find any reference to time ending. We are merely told that there will be a consumation of the ages. Ages are periods of time with particular purposes. When Gods current purpose for these ages is complete there may be many more for new purposes since God created us with some purpose in mind. The universe is amazingly huge and it really amazes me that this planet is and the time involved here is the ony useful part of this creation which God has made. Like I said this is all speculation because the scriptures are void concerning what follows God being all in all.

As for me being defensive concerning the doctrine I stand in. I am defensive of truth even to the smallest degree. We are to walk in truth teach in truth, live in truth, desire, seek, etc, truth. We are to expose contradiction and the lies of the devil. Being defensive and being offended are not the same and like I said I am not offended by what you said but I wanted to point out to you that it is an error to judge before truly gaining insight and understanding of exactly what someone is saying and comparing it with the whole of scripture and offering more than mere opinions.

I just want you to know that I am not sore at you for sore at you or offended by you in any way. You see, all who are here in this forum and others like it are here because they love the Lord and desire to know the truth. We are all brothers here. The only thing that causes contention is when we hold ourselves in high esteem when we have no right to do such a thing.

As I said, all I ask is that we all just approach each other with a genuine desire to seek out the scriptures without any contention.

God bless, Dave

[Absolute Truth]

AT, I apologize for the sarcasm. However, I feel we are 2 passing ships at sea on this topic. Universal salvation is a deception that you have allowed yourself to fall into, IMO. I don't think that God's Word requires a theology degree or loads of knowledge to interpret meanings of words. If it did, then we would all have to ditch our bibles and have to rely on those that do. Then we find ourselves listening to what man says, not God. Why would the Lord allow His word to be so flawed over time? I am sorry, but I don't buy it. When I read God's word, I read what it says. I don't take every word and try to find an alternative definition to support ideas that go against what His word clearly states.

1 Corinthians 1:19
Galatians 1:8-10

Dont be sorry Gibby. I am actually quite relieved that it was sarcasm and that it is not truly your hearts desire.

All is good. If you truly believe that all I am speaking is simply mans truth than that is where you stand.

Before I sign off I would like to clarify that nowhere have I intended that people see bibles as useless and throw them away. I myself still use the KGV but I have recorded the errors in translation and keep note of it as I study.

Please don't get the wrong impression from what I am actually saying or implying.

God Bless, Dave

[Bloodbought]

Hi Absolute Truth

I will try to respond to your main points in your post earlier today

1 Death

Rom 5 v 12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned—
There are various types of death mentioned such as physical death (end of natural life on earth), spiritual death such as comes on all who have sinned, daeth to self and sin where we try to overcome our sinful nature (with God's help)
Rom 8 v 1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.
This means that those who believe will not be subject to spirtual death. We will die naturally unless we are still alive when Christ comes for His church.

I agree with you that death is not forever.
Rev 21 v 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. The lake of fire is forever as I have shownin previous posts.

2 Life after death?
The story of the ricm man & Lazarus is NOT a parable. It is a true story about real people. Parable characters do not have names. The great Gulf fixed is permanent and is a barrier to returning to life.

3 Kingdom of Heaven.
The kingdom of Heaven is not the 1000 years when Christ reigns on earth.

Rev 20 v 6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years. When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison

The Kingdom of God or Heaven is a spiritual kingdom which will last forever.
Luk 17 v 20 Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is within you."

If as you say the old translation namely the KJV is full of errors then why dont you give up using it. Try a modern translation such as the NIV. 100 scholars were involved in translating this and did so directly from available Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts.

Christ Jesus died for our sins. If we believe in him why should we endure any punishment after natural death. Punishment after death is reserved for those who do not believe.

The truth Absolute or otherwise is not contain in man but is revealed by the Holy Spirit "wo will lead you into all truth". He reveals God's truth as contained in His word

[Jon-Marc]

The Light shined in my eyes, mind, and heart on May 18, 1963 when I called on the Lord for forgiveness and was saved! The gospel is really so simple that even a child can understand it. There's no need to make it complicated. I believe there are some things we're not meant to understand, but the important thing to understand is that we're lost and need a Saviour. That Saviour is Jesus Christ the Lord of lords and King of kings, the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

[Bloodbought]

Hi John Marc
I agree with you that knowing Christ is ALL important and knowing that our sins are forgiven and that we will not have to face eternal torment is Great. Unfortunately there are some who think that they cansort it all out after death and that eternal torment is only for a while. I would not like to have it on my concience that It did not try to explain the truth to someone who might be heading for a lost eternity. There are some truths that cannot be compromised on.

[Jay Dub]

Hades is not eternal since it itself is thrown into the lake of fire along with death. We are told they are swallowed up in victory. Let me ask you? How can people recieve death for eternity if death is swallowed up in victory and God makes a grand boast against death and the grave? "Oh death where is thy sting, oh grave, where is your victory?" If death is to reign forever by way of its eternal captives than death will always have a reply to God will it not???

We are told that in rev 21
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

We are told that there shall be no more death. We are to live with Christ for eternity. In this eternal rest with our Lord, we will never again taste death. Then when God says, he has cast death into the lack of fire, this is a picture of death being always separated from us. If for eternity we never again taste death, then this picture of death in the lake of fire is that of eternal separation from us. Death has been removed from us for eternity

This is the picture the Word paints for me. Death is not ceasing to exist, death is separation. The first death is the separation from our bodies and the second death is separation from God
Like death being separate from us for eternity, being thrown in the lake of fire. Those who experience the second death are separated from God for eternity

Another witness to this as their must be two to every truth is the demon possessed man who was laden with iniquity and possessed by legions of devils was wicked and evil and full of evil yet Christ cast out and caused to perish and destroyed that which was in the man that put him in this condition and the man himself was at the feet of Jesus fully clothed and in his right mind praising God. What happened to that which was tormenting this man? It was destroyed where? Of course IN A LAKE. This is a parable in nature and an act of God to give clarity regarding the power of God and will of God to make right that which has been so wrong. There is a purpose to judgement. It is not simply torturing and tormenting endlessly with no point or purpose. There is a purpose for all that God does. He IS LOVE not merely capable of loving. All that He does is in love and do claim anything less is to deny God

I have read this many times and never saw this as you do

The demon possessed man asked have you come to torment me before our time?
They pleaded with Jesus not to torture them and asked if they could go into the swine. He allowed it and the demons went into the pigs and ran off a cliff into the water

I have never read this and saw Jesus destroying the swine, and today after reading your post, I still do not see it as you do

Jesus agreed to let the demons into the swine, then they ran off the cliff no where does it say Jesus caused them to run off the cliff or that Jesus caused there destruction. The demon asked that they not be torture. Jesus agrees to let them go into the pigs, but then Jesus causes them to run off the cliff to their destruction? This would make Jesus look deceitful. He agrees to let them go, only to send them to their destruction. This makes no sense and I believe you are reading into the scriptures what is not there

I have always believed that the evil spirits caused the pigs to run off the cliff continuing in their destructive behavior.

And if we are to get an analogy from this or as you put it a parable in nature
Then I see it like this

That Jesus frees us from the things that bind us. He frees us from the evil desires from within us. He has set us free from our sinful nature and if we are to follow our evil desires, they will lead us into destruction. We can also look at the fact that the pigs are unclean, which we can compare to sinful man. Without the cleansing blood of Jesus we are unclean heading for destruction.

With respect I don’t see how we can use this as a witness

[Faith]

[QUOTE=Absolute Truth;35267]


Hi Dave,

I have heard this argument repeated many times.
Let me try an explain what the word says on these matters.

Revelation 20:13-15.

13.And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14.And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15.And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 13:8-9.

8.And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9.If any man have an ear, let him hear.




Many will say, Lord, Lord, but Jesus will say,"Go away I never knew you."
So we see men and women performing miracles and preaching Christ crucified and resurrected from the dead. Why does Christ say he never knew them?

Here is why and the Word of God in flesh comfirms this in his own teachings.
"If you love me you will keep my commandments." What are those commandments?
a.) Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, mind, body, soul and strength.
b.) Love your neighbour as yourself.

In 1 Corinthians 13 we are taught that love is the greatest. Not the performing of miracles or the speaking in tongues. But Love is the eternal truth that Christ teaches us as believers and human being, which is valued in heaven in our Fathers sight.

In the New Testament we see that Christ says.

John 7:15-17.

15.And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?

16.Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

17.If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.



John 6:44, 45 and 65.

44.No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45.It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.



65.And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.




John 14:15-17.

15.If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16.And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17.Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.


21.He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22.Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23.Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24.He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.





True believers hear the Words of Christ and believe them. They obey his message and commandments to Love the Father God and one another.
It is by love not miracles we show ourselves to be true disciples and followers of Christ. It is Love which brings the Spirit indwelling and the presence of our heavenly Father in our lives and to know Jesus Christ.

In the word it clearly says, "Those who do not have the Spirit, do not belong to Christ." If you truly love him your obey his commandments. Galations 5 shows that those in Spirit do not obey the Lusts of the Flesh. It is about being taught by God and loving others. We can make mistakes but as long as we confess our sins and we walk aright each time the Lord will lead us.

Love Faith.xx