Background To The Gifts of Tongues

[Chuckt]

any answers to my queries???

Dr. Norman Geisler makes a good argument in his four volume set on Systematic Theology as to why Tongues may have been an Apostolic gift and why it may have ceased. I have his Systematic Theology set of four books.

[Galaen]

You will not find a Pentecostal to explain the deviation from biblical practice to the modern chaotic mess that does not edify the church. Their "holy spirit" does not lead them to knowledge or maturity, rather it serves as alcohol to give them a buzz and leads them astray as if a spirit of a demon.

I don't know what your experience has been DD but it is certainly not an experience of the moving of the Holy Spirit. I am not a member of a Pentecostal Church and I use the gift of tongues regularly. I do not use it in this particular church which I am a member of at the moment because it would be offensive to some people - neither I or the Holy Spirit are into the business of offending people by His presence. When moving in the Spirit or using the gifts of the Holy Spirit I am not drunk or demon posessed - I have seen both these things and speaking in tongues is nothing like it. I find it easy to accept that other Christians want to worship God in a quiet way and do not want to use some of the gifts of the Spirit but I do have problem with your attitude towards anyone who does use the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

[Galaen]

I think there is more and it is called obedience. Obey by giving out the gospel instead of practicing your spiritual gift. Whole bookstores have opened their shelves to books bent on teaching you to practice your spiritual gift and they give no shelf space to books on evangelism or counter-cult evangelism. What people buy results in what people are thinking and practicing to the degree / percentage it is being sold.

The term supply and demand comes to mind here - if you want particular books then ask at the bookstore for them. This is what I do and I usually end up with what I want. If you want books on evengelism or counter-cult evangelism then ask for them. The Christian Bookshop near me has books about evengelism - and plenty of them too. There are also books about helping us to see the enemy at work in the world.

[Galaen]

Dr. Norman Geisler makes a good argument in his four volume set on Systematic Theology as to why Tongues may have been an Apostolic gift and why it may have ceased. I have his Systematic Theology set of four books.

If the gift of tongues has ceased, how come so many people are given it and can use it?

[Chuckt]

If the gift of tongues has ceased, how come so many people are given it and can use it?

I'm going to restate my position that I'm in the middle. I discount what is going on but I am open to the idea that the gifts of the spirit are here but few people actually have them.

It is an interesting question. I shall bring up the obvious from scripture:

Matthew 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Matthew 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

How did they know Moses and Elias were talking to them? They knew them because they know the spirit. If the gift of tongues was operating then we might know the tongue as we are known in the spirit.

Acts 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

It isn't so today. We don't hear people speak today in our language when they are speaking in tongues. If everyone does speak in tongues then why is it different?

And my follow up question is: If you never knew what Christianity was, how would you know if you were in it? This question is not meant to suggest that someone is not in Christianity. The question pertains to tongues. If you never knew what tongues was before being saved, how would you know if you were using real tongues?

[DeaconDan]

I don't know what your experience has been DD but it is certainly not an experience of the moving of the Holy Spirit.

I believe that you believe you speak in tongues.

I do have problem with your attitude towards anyone who does use the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

I believe Pentecostalism to be destructive and unbiblical. I believe that the only "benefit" you get from it is the belief that is real. I know you do not like the critical attitude, but how else can I respond, given what I believe?

I have never had a "bad" personal experience with pentecostals or a pentecostal church. My experience is no worse than yours. But, when I see the same things you see, but I see something different. When I look at the big picture, I see things very differently.

[Chuckt]

If the gift of tongues has ceased, how come so many people are given it and can use it?

People in different religions speak in tongues. Do we give validity to their religion if they speak in tongues?

[Galaen]

I believe that you believe you speak in tongues.



I believe Pentecostalism to be destructive and unbiblical. I believe that the only "benefit" you get from it is the belief that is real. I know you do not like the critical attitude, but how else can I respond, given what I believe?

I have never had a "bad" personal experience with pentecostals or a pentecostal church. My experience is no worse than yours. But, when I see the same things you see, but I see something different. When I look at the big picture, I see things very differently.

You have a right to your own opinion but you do not have the right to tell others they are destructive without proof - and no, I am not from a Pentecostal Church or from a Pentecostal background.

[Galaen]

People in different religions speak in tongues. Do we give validity to their religion if they speak in tongues?

Then enemy (satan) can and does mimick the gift of the Holy Spirit this is why the Gifts should be tested but just because there are forgeries does not detract from the real thing. To put it into worldly terms - just because there are copies and forgeries of most of the worlds great perfumes, does this mean that the real thing is worthless and not genuine? No it means that some unscruppulous person has seen something of value and wants to steal some of the proceeds of that item for themselves. All this means is that the forgeries are worthless and that the genuine article is something of value and worth trying to copy. What was it the Bible said? Oh yes that was it, 'Not everyone who says Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdon of Heaven'

[DeaconDan]

You have a right to your own opinion but you do not have the right to tell others they are destructive without proof - and no, I am not from a Pentecostal Church or from a Pentecostal background.

Proof? Look at what Pentecostal preachers on television have done for the reputation o the Televangelist profession. Look at the dead bodies of children who died because their Pentecostal parents insisted on prayer rather than medicine to heal their children. Look at the unprecedented doctrinal corruption that has been ushered into the Protestant church by Pentecostals. Look at the waning influence of the church over our culture as Pentecostals have gained more power within the church. Look at the disrespect Pentecostals, through their floor shows and street magic, bring to the church in the eyes of the unsaved. Look at the false expectations of miracles Pentecostals create, which at some point challenge the believer's faith when he comes to see it is all tricks.

Let us take the first example I gave, televangelists. Go and ask a non-Christian what he thinks when he hears the word "televangelist". Ask him to name the televangelists who gave him this impression.

I know you do not accept this because you string together random phonics from the English language and think it is another language, even though no one understands it anymore than if it were random sounds. The only thing real about it is your belief that it is real.