Is it true that once saved always saved?

[The_Student]

What do you think? is this doctrine biblical?

[smellycat]

the dog returning to his vomit shows some are not.

[dan p]

What do you think? is this doctrine biblical?

And Eph 2:8 prove it , because SAVED in this verse is in the Greek Prefect Tense and that means the MOMENT that anyone is saved, that point in time is in Part tense and than you will alway find yourselve in the Present Tense and that means it is continuing , always .

[Lily]

What do you think? is this doctrine biblical?

This is something I've thought a lot about in recent months.
Infact, even less than a month ago I was discussing this very thing with Canny.
I've thought, regarding sin, " well, what if you do this, what if you do that ? "
Having 40yrs of RC doctrine and practice under my belt left me with all sorts of questions and even today, nearly 10yrs after walking away, I'm still asking questions.

Going back to my studies but primarily reading Scripture has prooved to me that " once saved always saved is totally and utterly Biblical.

As my question was regarding sinning, I started there.
The Bible teaches that man is inherently sinful, that a sinful nature is a part of all of us.
Romans 3:10 tells us,,, "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one "

This means that even after being saved, we are going to sin, everyone of us because thinking we can live a perfect sinless life is not only unbiblical, it's arrogant.
James 2:10

The doctrine of eternal security goes hand in hand with the doctrine of saved by faith alone. If once saved, always saved is not true, then reason dictates that we are saved both by our faith and our works making this concept,,,,,

The doctrine of eternal security goes hand in hand with the doctrine of saved by faith alone.

contradictory to Scripture.

John 10:28-30 says,,,,,

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I and my Father are one "

There is nothing a person can do that God cannot forgive once saved. The only sin that keeps you out of Heaven is unbelief and is a truely saved person guilty of that ? So the example of,

the dog returning to his vomit shows some are not.

tells me that that person wasn't saved in the first place.


This doctrine is supported by,,,
Romans 8:38-39 Ephesians 4:30 and Jude 1:24 to name just 3.


Of course the doctrine is Biblical.

[forgiven]

there are 2 sides to a coin two sides to this question while i do believe in the security of those who are TRULY BORN AGAIN --i dont buy into the point that a person is a christian CAN LIve how they want still make it into heaven . there is a chastisement from GOD if a person continues on in their sins with out repenting . that tome would point out either A. they never felt conviction--which would make them a bastard . B. they never was saved. we need to remember the Bible tells us not everyone who says LORD LORD

I Never Knew You

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

what i am posting is general baptist teaching--in which i am ordained DO NOT read into this that i am saying this is the right teaching i read the Bible and go from there so this is only a example
IV. SALVATION
We believe that salvation (regeneration, sanctification, justification and redemption) has been provided for all mankind through the redemptive work (life, death, resurrection, ascension, and intercession) of Jesus Christ, and that this salvation can be received only through repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
Salvation: Heb. 5:9; I Thess. 5:9; I Pet. 1:9; Heb. 7:25. Regeneration: Jn. 3:3-8; 1:11-13; I Pet. 1:23; Eph. 2:1-10; II Cor. 5:17; II Pet. 1:4; Titus 3:5. Sanctification: I Cor. 1:30; Eph. 5:26; Heb. 10:9-10, 29; II Tim. 2:21; Heb. 13:12; Rom. 12:1-2; I Pet. 1:2. Justification: Rom. 3:20-24; 5:1-2, 18; 8:30-33; Acts 13:38-39; I Cor. 6:11; II Cor. 5:21. Redemption: Matt. 20:28; Isa. 53:6; Col. 1:14; Titus 2:14; I Pet. 1:18-19; Rev. 5:9. Christ¹s Redemptive Work: Jn. 3:16; Rom. 5:8; Heb. 2:9; Rev. 22:17; II Pet. 3:9; Jn 14:6; Acts 4:12; Rom. 6:23; Eph. 2:8-9. Life and Death: Rom. 5:10; Heb. 9:12-15; Jn. 10:11; I Jn. 3:16. Resurrection: Rom. 4:25; I Pet. 1:3; I Cor. 15:14, 17. Ascension: Heb. 4:14-16, 6:19-20; 9:24; 10:11-12. Intercession: Rom. 8:34; Heb. 9:15; Isa. 53:12; I Tim. 2:5. Repentance: Isa. 55:6-7; Lk. 24:47; Lk. 13:3-5; Acts 2:38; I Thess. 1:9-10. Faith: Jn. 3:16-18; Heb. 11:1, 6; I Pet. 1:5.

V. ASSURANCE AND ENDURANCE
We believe that those who abide in Christ have the assurance of salvation. However, we believe that the Christian retains his freedom of choice; therefore, it is possible for him to turn away from God and be finally lost.
(A) Assurance: Matt. 28:20; I Cor. 10:13; Heb. 5:9. (B) Endurance: Matt. 10:22; Lk. 9:62; Col. 1:23; Rev. 2:10-11; 3:3-5. (C) Warnings: Jn. 15:6; Rom. 11:20-23; Gal. 5:4; Heb. 3:12; 10:26-29; II Pet. 2:20-21. (D) Finally Lost: Jn. 15:6; I Cor. 9:27; Heb. 6:4-6.

southern baptist teachings

IV. Salvation

Salvation involves the redemption of the whole man, and is offered freely to all who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, who by His own blood obtained eternal redemption for the believer. In its broadest sense salvation includes regeneration, justification, sanctification, and glorification. There is no salvation apart from personal faith in Jesus Christ as Lord.

A. Regeneration, or the new birth, is a work of God's grace whereby believers become new creatures in Christ Jesus. It is a change of heart wrought by the Holy Spirit through conviction of sin, to which the sinner responds in repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Repentance and faith are inseparable experiences of grace.

Repentance is a genuine turning from sin toward God. Faith is the acceptance of Jesus Christ and commitment of the entire personality to Him as Lord and Saviour.

B. Justification is God's gracious and full acquittal upon principles of His righteousness of all sinners who repent and believe in Christ. Justification brings the believer unto a relationship of peace and favor with God.

C. Sanctification is the experience, beginning in regeneration, by which the believer is set apart to God's purposes, and is enabled to progress toward moral and spiritual maturity through the presence and power of the Holy Spirit dwelling in him. Growth in grace should continue throughout the regenerate person's life.

D. Glorification is the culmination of salvation and is the final blessed and abiding state of the redeemed.

Genesis 3:15; Exodus 3:14-17; 6:2-8; Matthew 1:21; 4:17; 16:21-26; 27:22-28:6; Luke 1:68-69; 2:28-32; John 1:11-14,29; 3:3-21,36; 5:24; 10:9,28-29; 15:1-16; 17:17; Acts 2:21; 4:12; 15:11; 16:30-31; 17:30-31; 20:32; Romans 1:16-18; 2:4; 3:23-25; 4:3ff.; 5:8-10; 6:1-23; 8:1-18,29-39; 10:9-10,13; 13:11-14; 1 Corinthians 1:18,30; 6:19-20; 15:10; 2 Corinthians 5:17-20; Galatians 2:20; 3:13; 5:22-25; 6:15; Ephesians 1:7; 2:8-22; 4:11-16; Philippians 2:12-13; Colossians 1:9-22; 3:1ff.; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24; 2 Timothy 1:12; Titus 2:11-14; Hebrews 2:1-3; 5:8-9; 9:24-28; 11:1-12:8,14; James 2:14-26; 1 Peter 1:2-23; 1 John 1:6-2:11; Revelation 3:20; 21:1-22:5.

V. God's Purpose of Grace

Election is the gracious purpose of God, according to which He regenerates, justifies, sanctifies, and glorifies sinners. It is consistent with the free agency of man, and comprehends all the means in connection with the end. It is the glorious display of God's sovereign goodness, and is infinitely wise, holy, and unchangeable. It excludes boasting and promotes humility.

All true believers endure to the end. Those whom God has accepted in Christ, and sanctified by His Spirit, will never fall away from the state of grace, but shall persevere to the end. Believers may fall into sin through neglect and temptation, whereby they grieve the Spirit, impair their graces and comforts, and bring reproach on the cause of Christ and temporal judgments on themselves; yet they shall be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.

Genesis 12:1-3; Exodus 19:5-8; 1 Samuel 8:4-7,19-22; Isaiah 5:1-7; Jeremiah 31:31ff.; Matthew 16:18-19; 21:28-45; 24:22,31; 25:34; Luke 1:68-79; 2:29-32; 19:41-44; 24:44-48; John 1:12-14; 3:16; 5:24; 6:44-45,65; 10:27-29; 15:16; 17:6,12,17-18; Acts 20:32; Romans 5:9-10; 8:28-39; 10:12-15; 11:5-7,26-36; 1 Corinthians 1:1-2; 15:24-28; Ephesians 1:4-23; 2:1-10; 3:1-11; Colossians 1:12-14; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14; 2 Timothy 1:12; 2:10,19; Hebrews 11:39–12:2; James 1:12; 1 Peter 1:2-5,13; 2:4-10; 1 John 1:7-9; 2:19; 3:2.

question who is right who is wrong read your Bible pray about it work out your own salvation with fear and trembling


lets not forget Calvinism and Armenian my self i lean toward Armenian. this has always been greatly debated doubtful it will ever end

[marcelle19]

Boy, do I know a Baptist church or two that disagree with almost everything you just posted - in context.

Eternal and Everlasting life that ends:

What a concept! Brilliant!

Only from the mind of man can we present you with such gems of eisegesis.

Oh, yeah, then there's Phil 2:13:
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


They kinda go together, you know.

[Lily]

-i dont buy into the point that a person is a christian CAN LIve how they want still make it into heaven

I think maybe thats a misconception that many think.
A truely saved person would surely live by " and they shall be known by their fruits " surely.
I mean, anyone, even the most dedicated Christian sins, whether that be thought, word or deed so maybe the important question should be,

" If sin causes the loss of salvation, what kind or amount of sin does it take? "

Also, if salvation can't be bought with good deeds then can it be lost by bad deeds ?

[Pariah]

What do you think? is this doctrine biblical?

2 Peter 2:1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

Here's what happened at salvation.

Matthew 9:17Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

How we build on that foundation determines whethor we shall be vessels unto honour in God's House or vessels unto dishonour in God's House. This is why we labour to present every believer as a chaste bride in Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Colossians 1:27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: 29Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

1 Corinthians 6: 19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

2 Timothy 2: 18Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. 22Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

This is a faithful saying:

2 Timothy 2: 10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

This is pertaining to being a vessel unto honour in God's House: not that they haven't obtained salvation yet. It is in the same chapter.

2 Timothy 2:11It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Akin to being left behind in being a vessel unto honour.

2 Timothy 2:13If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

So if a believer stops believing in Jesus Christ because of the lies in evolution theory or whatever.... it doesn't change what Christ has done.

2 Timothy 2:14Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

This si why the vessels of dishonour will be in God;s House to show the glory of God in Jesus Christ for what He has done.

Does it matter then about those that have gone astray?

2 Timothy 2: 24And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Matthew 18:11For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. 15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

Just because a brother no longer follows after the traditions taught of us, it does not mean undoing anything Christ has done in having saved us, because he is still a brother, but.... we do have these instructions:

2 Thessalonians 3:1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;.....

..... 14And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

So no one should be doubting any believer as being saved or not, but we are called to warn every believer what is not of faith and what is not considered as abiding in Him so that we may present with His help every believer as a chaste bride in Christ by the grace of God.

[marcelle19]

Your theology never fails to astound me, Pariah.

Wondrous.

What kind of destruction do those false teachers bring upon themselves - or am I failing to understand you saying they are Christians, and if so, what pernicious ways are those who follow them getting into while they are destroyed?

And I thought Paul, by God, was speaking of of some things that were impossible to understand, in Romans 11:33-36. But God doesn't contradict Himself, we know that, right?

[Pariah]

Your theology never fails to astound me, Pariah.

Wondrous.

What kind of destruction do those false teachers bring upon themselves - or am I failing to understand you saying they are Christians, and if so, what pernicious ways are those who follow them getting into while they are destroyed?

And I thought Paul, by God, was speaking of of some things that were impossible to understand, in Romans 11:33-36. But God doesn't contradict Himself, we know that, right?

1 Corinthians 3: 16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are....23And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

The destruction of becoming a vessel unto dishonour where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth for it is a terrible thing to be reproved in the hands of God. It is a judgment that cannot become undone when given.

Hebrews 10:30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Matthew 5: 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The vessels unto dishonour will need a miracle from God to wipe the tears from their eyes to get past their loss and we find in Revelation that God will do this.