Is it true that once saved always saved?

[Jay Dub]

Is it true that once saved always saved?

I think maybe thats a misconception that many think.
A truely saved person would surely live by " and they shall be known by their fruits " surely.
I mean, anyone, even the most dedicated Christian sins, whether that be thought, word or deed so maybe the important question should be,

" If sin causes the loss of salvation, what kind or amount of sin does it take? "

Also, if salvation can't be bought with good deeds then can it be lost by bad deeds ?

Lily, I think you are absolutely right. The problem to me is the question. The question should not be is it right to say once saved always saved, but are all who claim to be saved, saved?

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

This verse troubles me, Lord, Lord, these are people who know Jesus or at least feel they know him, Lord Lord. They have prophesied in his name, they cast out devils and done many wonderful works

These people not only knew him they thought they were doing his will for their life. They did wonderful works, they prophesied, they cast out demons, yet Jesus said I never knew you. I can not help but pause here and ask myself. What is going on here? who are these people? To me, I would think these people thought they were saved.

This is why I think the question should be. Are all believers who claim to be saved, saved?

We also have the verses in Revelation

Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

This is a letter to the church of Laodicea, these are believers in Jesus Christ, but because they are lukewarm Jesus will spue them out. Are these Christians that have been saved? They are believers, but are all believers saved?

The sower
The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy.
Mat 13:21 But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away.

For that short time did he think he was saved??

If he heard our message once saved always saved would he feel secure?

Yet, Jesus said ,when trouble or persecution come he quickly falls

Mat 13:22 The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful.
Again are these saved believers? They first received the word, meaning to me that they at one time thought they were true Christan's worries and deceitfulness of wealth choked it making them unfruitful

To be truthful, I struggle with the question, once save always saved
Can anyone snatch out those in his hand, No absolutely not. Are all who think they are secure in Christ his, I would say no

[Pariah]

Jay Dub,

I would believe those verses you referred to are in regards to being found abiding in Him.

Jesus is not going to bother saving someone and not finish His workmanship in them, and that includes those left behind at the rapture event. He taught His disciples about the cost of discipleship. Does one begin to build and wasn't able to finish? He will finish it because as Jesus taught, so will He do. He is leading us by example.

[Lily]

The question should not be is it right to say once saved always saved, but are all who claim to be saved, saved?

Definately Jay Dub and this was the point I was trying to push home in the Billy Graham thread.
Giving people a sugar pill does them no good at all and leads to confusion.

Although, the paradox of religion being, that the more we learn the less we seem to know and from one question pops another and another, I have another question about Jay Dubs question.

Take an example of what we have been talking about in that thread and someone genuinely believes that " that settles it ", they live their lives in a Christian manner and genuinely believe what they have been told.
Even so, that information was only a half truth.

Would the God I love condemn them on genuine ignorance ?

[Pariah]

Matthew 13: 11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 16But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. 17For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

18Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. 19When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

^^^^Non-believers^^^^

20But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

^^^^Religious believers^^^^ Saved but labouring in unbelief where by his religious pride, he is offended. Eyes are off of Jesus to himself.

22He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

^^^^Carnal believers^^^^ Saved, but sowing to the flesh in reaping corruption. Eyes off of Jesus and to serving his flesh.

23But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

^^^^Abiding believers^^^^ Saved and living that reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ with eyes on Jesus in trusting Him for living the christian life as well as resting in Him for eternal life, thereby getting to know Him and the power of His resurrection...

[Bloodbought]

Once saved always saved ???

How many times did Christ die?

Remember the story of the prodigal son LUKE 15. He was not a son twice. He was a son restored.

Saved people can loose their way but not their salvation.

[Pariah]

Amen, BloodBought.

For all those that believe in the Son of God, they have been bought with a price and sealed as His which is a promise from God to all those that come to Him. Matthew 9:17

John 3:14-16 John 6:38-40 John 6:44

We should be careful of doctrines and teachings that deny that we have been bought.

[smellycat]

i couldn,t live anywere else,i,d be a burden to them.

[canny]

Amen, BloodBought.

For all those that believe in the Son of God, they have been bought with a price and sealed as His which is a promise from God to all those that come to Him. Matthew 9:17

John 3:14-16 John 6:38-40 John 6:44

We should be careful of doctrines and teachings that deny that we have been bought.

We should be careful I agree,,, but we are on a Christian forum, so I think we can relax a little,,,,,,,

We are told tho Pariah to watch and listen,,, I am watching

[Pariah]

We should be careful I agree,,, but we are on a Christian forum, so I think we can relax a little,,,,,,,

We are told tho Pariah to watch and listen,,, I am watching

No NO! We are to tense up! Be utterly in a state of panick!!

There are so many things declaring that we are not even christians!!!

Where's that panic button? Hmmm..... oh yes, I know where to turn to...

the faith in...

As much as I have been seen as divisive, I only point out how it causes insecurities and doubts about one's salvation as I have seen it occur in believers around me.

I was kidding about being in a state of panic, but in actuality, there is nothing funny nor honourable to hold onto something that steals away the joy of their salvation even if they do not see it yet.

It is one thing to point out the error, but to show the difference by comparing it with the Good News, then may God cause the increase so that they may remember their first love.

And I did try to relax for a little bit with some display of humour. Not too many were jovial about it. Just a few. Many read it though.

I know. Don't give up my day job.

Too late. Cause I don't have a job.

Maybe this will be a new saying...?

A good way to get rid of bad comedians is to give them a job.

Now that unemployment is way up... good luck with getting rid of the comedians.

[Jay Dub]

How many times did Christ die?

Remember the story of the prodigal son LUKE 15. He was not a son twice. He was a son restored.

Saved people can loose their way but not their salvation.

Bloodbought

The prodigal son was living in sin, he then left his sin, and returned home to his Father, who then accepted him with love. It was not the Father who went out and got his son, but it was the son who said I shall go to my father

Bloodbought. I wish to understand then, who are these people

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Yet Jesus tells them he never knew them, who are these people Jesus never knew? They call him by name, Lord, Lord. They prophesied and cast out devils, did they think they were saved?