History or legend?

[iamowen]

What you have to remember is that, for reasons best known to them, different people down the ages have recorded things to try and prove something that they beleive. Rather than record actual events, their theology has crept into it. For example if you wanted to "proove" something that you beleived, you would record an event or events that supported your particular theology. With that in mind, there may be records that are recorded for this reason, and only certain particulars that support their theology are recorded, those that did not, would not be recorded. So if you take the Roman Catholic Church for instance, throughout their time of supremecy they would record as fact only that which agreed with their theology, and as we know, destroy that which did not. Particular groups that were not in agreement were labled as heretics and even killed. So we get distortions in recorded "facts". The same is true for all denomonations of Christianity. It is immpossible for any man to accurately record any event, that affects our Christian walk, without colouring it with our own brand of theology. With that in view I think it is best to trust only The Word Of God. As fare as things in the past, if you yourself have wittnessed things and are sure of them, and they are in line with scripture, accept them as HIS working with man. This may not sit right with you but it is safer than the alternative. History can only be judged by what is written, if what is written is a distortion of facts then our conclusions will be wrong. If you look at the recorded evidence, you may be missled instead of finding the truth. If you must then make sure that you check everthing against HIS Word, and take with a pinch of salt all that you read.

[inquisitive]

It is immpossible for any man to accurately record any event, that affects our Christian walk, without colouring it with our own brand of theology

With this in mind how can we rely on scripture?

[DeaconDan]

Firstly, I do not need any of these miracles to be true.

What does it matter if they are true or not, if your faith is not at issue?

Secondly, my motive has nothing to do with whether or not certain Christians are "Saints". Again, please don't read things into my question that are simply not there.

The Catholic church uses alleged miracles to establish the sainthood of people. Among Pentecostals, alleged miracles are used by leaders to elevate their own status. Peter and Elisha were unquestionable giants of the faith aside from the miracles they performed. When Peter (not his shadow) healed people, it did nothing to establish his sainthood or to elevate his own status. His healings were done as proof to the people that the Gospel he preached is of God. Peter preached to people who loved God but did not previously know the Messiah. Peter was making scripture.

So, what shall I do? Ignore 1900 years of God's activity in this world? Or try to learn from it, using the precedents in Scripture as a guide?

In scripture, shadows and bones healed no one.

[iamowen]

"With this in mind how can we rely on scripture?"

Don't you ?
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Peter 1:20-21 (KJV)

[eddybear]

I've decided I'm not going to try to press this question any more

[Jay Dub]

Firstly, I do not need any of these miracles to be true. Please don't claim things about me that are simply not true! My faith in Christ as my Saviour, crucified and risen, is not affected one way or the other.

Eddy I did not mean for it to sound like I was accusing you of anything. I meant it in general, I should have said, Do we need these miracles for our faith

My personal standing on these things are, The things we see in scripture we should believe in. I believe we should bring our requests before the Lord.

Bring him all our troubles and concerns, this is scriptural, so I believe in healing because we see it in scripture

I personally become skeptical, when I don't see it in scripture or scripture tells us something different

an example

The shroud of Turin

I find it to be fascinating, but is it Jesus, I don't know.

Taking Jesus' body, the two of them wrapped it, with the spices, in strips of linen. This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs.

Jhn 20:5 He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in.
Jhn 20:6 Then Simon Peter, who was behind him, arrived and went into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there,

The shroud is one piece, so I am skeptical, because these verses say strips. The shroud is fasinating but has no barring on my beliefs as you have said, your faith is secure

This is all I was trying to say, if we don't see it in the scriptures, then without proof I would be skeptical

Again I am sorry how I came across to you. I will be more careful in the future

[inquisitive]

"With this in mind how can we rely on scripture?"

Don't you ?
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Peter 1:20-21 (KJV)

I asked a legitimate question from your own words owen

It is immpossible for any man to accurately record any event, that affects our Christian walk, without colouring it with our own brand of theology

Any man would include those who penned the scriptures...gospels recording events in Jesus lives, the books after the gospels recording events after Jesus life on earth. So your statement would also cast doubt on the validity of scripture in itself aswell, unless you really didnt mean all men.

[Onesiphorus]

The Word of God does not claim that any man is inerrant ,what the Bible says is that the "words of God" are inerrant ,so as an example

2 Timothy 3:15

Over 800 times we read "thus sayeth the LORD"

Jeremiah 30:2 ,Thus speaketh the Lord God of Israel saying "Write thee all the words that I HAVE SPOKEN UNTO THEE in a book

I could give you many more but yhis is to show that it is not that man cannot err ,it is that Gods word is the inspired (breathed out) thing and it is these words that are preserved in Scripture

This is a faith thing and you either have faith and believe this or not ,but it follows that if you do not believe scripture is the inerrant word of God ,then how can you have faith in God as the doubt is there that the Bible is errant ,therefore questioning the preservation of His word ,again ,a promise by God that He will preserve His word

[inquisitive]

Therefore:

It is immpossible for any man to accurately record any event, that affects our Christian walk, without colouring it with our own brand of theology

It is possible for some men to accurately record any event, that affects our Christian walk, without colouring it with our own brand of theology, because we have the bible as an example of such a time that they have done.

[DeaconDan]

Any man would include those who penned the scriptures...gospels recording events in Jesus lives, the books after the gospels recording events after Jesus life on earth. So your statement would also cast doubt on the validity of scripture in itself aswell, unless you really didnt mean all men.

If you believe the writers of scripture is inspired by God then your reasoning is invalid.