Calvinism : He gave himself for the non-elect

[Chuckt]

I feel that those who teach Jesus didn't die for the non-elect are teaching a half truth. He offered atonement for those whom He might save but the saving is for those who accept it.

Galatians 1:4 Who gave (G5228, hyper) himself for our sins, that he might (G1807, exaireō) deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

I can have fun with the word "might" because it suggests he died for those he might save so if He gives himself in the place of those who aren't saved then He died for the non-elect.

Galatians 1 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)
Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

hyper:
1) in behalf of, for the sake of
2) over, beyond, more than

3) more, beyond, over

exaireo (too hard to translate right now):
1) to pluck out, draw out, i.e. root out

2) to choose out (for one's self), select, one person from many

3) to rescue, deliver

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

[weareisaac]

I lay down my life for the sheep - John 10:15

you are not my sheep - John 10:26

In the first verse Christ tells us who he is atoning for, his sheep.

Then in verse 26 he tells some that they are not his sheep.

so this means he didnt atone for them, right?


BTW you use the term elect which gives me the idea you believe God has an elect people, yet you seem to believe he not only made atonement for the elect but also for the no-elect Why would God atone for the non -elect, as you put it?

[Chuckt]

Your terminology is confusing the issue. He died for them and while people still have to accept the sacrifice to be saved, they aren't atoned for until they bring His atonement (already provided) to the altar.

[weareisaac]

Apologies if iv confused the matter

So your saying my acceptance of the sacrifice is what makes it effectual?

But Christs work is finished he had already payed for my sins?

My faith or repentance doesnt add anything to Christ atonement.

God elects a people

Christ make atonement for them

The Spirit Regenrates them

[Chuckt]

Apologies if iv confused the matter

So your saying my acceptance of the sacrifice is what makes it effectual?

But Christs work is finished he had already payed for my sins?

My faith or repentance doesnt add anything to Christ atonement.

God elects a people

Christ make atonement for them

The Spirit Regenrates them

That is foreign to the Old Testament because you had to place your hands on the head of an animal to transfer your sins.

Leviticus 4:15 And the elders of the congregation shall lay their hands upon the head of the bullock before the LORD: and the bullock shall be killed before the LORD.

Leviticus 16:21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send [him] away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

[smellycat]

jesus says he comes for his own,but also takes from which is not his own.1 sheppard with 1 flock.

[weareisaac]

So when were your sins transferred to Christ?

[Chuckt]

So when were your sins transferred to Christ?

On the cross and His righteousness is imputed by faith.

[inquisitive]

yeah cat i was thinking of that scripture, verses missed out earlier

John 10

14"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

So He is the good shepherd of those that know His voice...but also for sheep not of particular pen....so question, who exactly are the sheep of the first pen talked about ...and who are the sheep not of that pen that will also recognise His voice...just for clarity?

also

John 3:16

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Belief doesnt necessarily mean having the ability to hear a voice? so who is the 'world' in this scenario?

[Chuckt]

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.

Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.