Evil and suffering.

[Lily]

Found my college notes on " evil and suffering ".


Evil is generally defined in philosophical terms in two ways.

1. Moral evil.
Moral evil results from human actions which are morally reproachable. The holocaust, which resulted from a combination of cruelty and misguided ideals, is a classic example.

2. Natural evil.

Natural evil results from the malfunctioning of the natural world, which produces entities such as disease and famine. Ex : an earthquake because the result of that natural evil is suffering. The philosophical argument for naming such an event as " natural evil " is because it does not discriminate to whom it strikes with the end result that many innocent victims are often caught in it's path.

I suspect no one would disagree with the definition of moral evil but natural evil leads to a problem for many people.
That problem leads to the following dilema,,,,,,
1. Since God alone created the universe out of nothing, He has total responsibility for everything in it. If he is all powerful, then, He can do anything that is logically possible. This means that He could have created a world free from actual evil and suffering and free from the possibility of ever going wrong. It also means that, should He ever have allowed it to come about, He could end all evil and suffering.

2. Since God is omnisicient, He has complete knowledge of everything in the universe, including evil and suffering. He also knows how to stop it.

3. Since God is omnipotent, He could carry out immediately His desire to step in and stop the suffering but because evil and suffering still exist, that leads to an argument presented by many, is that He can't be omnibenevolent. That no loving God would allow his creation to suffer physical and mental torment for no reason and to no avail.
So that then leads to an argument concluded by reason, that because evil and suffering still exist either God lacks,
1. Omnipotence or omnibenevolence
or
2. He does not exist.

David Hume set out this dilema in " Dialogues concerning natural religion ". Upon examining the qualities of omnipotence, omnibenevolence and evil, he concluded that only two out of the three can exist alongside each other.
Therfore, " either ",,,,
God is not omnipotent " or ",
God is not omnibenevolent " or ",
evil does not exist.
While the existence of evil has been questioned by some, HUme considered that it's effects are felt too widely, and in presence, attested too vividly for it to be dismissed.
Therfore, accepting that evil exists, he concluded that God must either be impotent or malicious. Hume therfore concluded that God does not exist.

This position is supported by the argument that is found in Aquinus " summa theologica ", which suggests that Gods existence in the face of evil is " logically " impossible.

"St Thomas Aquinus, Summa Theologica ",,,,

It seems that God does not exist: because if one of two contraries be infinate, the other would be altogether destroyed. But the name of God means he is infinate goodness. If therefore, God existed, there would be no evil discoverable, but there is evil in this world. Therfore God does not exist "

Since, for Aqunius, the concept of infinate goodness is an essential part of Gods nature, any proof against God's goodness being infinate will constitute proof that God does not exist. The existence of even the tiniest quantity of evil precludes the possibility of infinate goodness.

Aqinas differed from Hume, however, in that whereas Hume, as an atheist, accepted this conclusion, Aqinas went on to reject it.

Aqinas argued that God's goodness is a very different concept from our own, and that his goodness might allow Him to tolerate the existence of what we consider to be evil as a tempory part of His plan.
If this is the case, there can be no logical contradiction in supposing that God is all loving, all powerful " and " has good reason for allowing what " we " call evil to exist.

Something to consider from the above,,,,,

What possible reason might God have for permitting evil to exist in the world ?
and,
Can we consider whether there are any benefits that result from the existence of some evil ?

Maybe we can dijest all of the above today, then tomorrow I can present St Augustines argument.

[DeaconDan]

The anti-God arguments assume God cannot use evil for good. The Bible consistantly makes the point that God uses all things, including evil, for good. Our sins allow God to show greater mercy. Our short moment of suffering will give us greater appreciation of our eternal comfort.

[Lily]

The anti-God arguments assume God cannot use evil for good.

Yes, I think thats a good point and one tune that gets played so often with those who are anti, almost like it prooves their point.

[Galaen]

Will we ever know the reasoning behind some of creation this side of heaven? It is hard to see why God would have created evil in any shape or form and I have often wondered why such natural disasters occur and have not really come up with any satisfactory answer to add to a debate. Having said that it does not mean that I do not believe that God can and does use disaster for good be it personal or global. One thing I have noticed with many people - those who have not suffered often appear to be the most naive and often only see black and white rather than any shades of grey. Admitted some things may be yes or no, good or bad etc but so often their are shades in between which those who have never suffered in any major way do not often appear to see. Does this make sense? It makes sense in my head but when it starts to come out looks a bit garbled!

At this point may I point out that I trust God with everything because He has been with me through some pretty tough stuff and He has NEVER let me down, He has not always done what I wanted Him to do but with hindsight it has always been the best thing for me. So even though I cannot answer your question Lily, I know there must be a reason for it all.

[canny]

Can't say I see natural disasters as evil

[Lily]

Can't say I see natural disasters as evil

Well, thats the philosophical term, an event which is the opposite to good.

[streetsinger]

Isaiah 45:7 (KJV)
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.Without both light and darkness there would be no vision, no beauty. It's the subtlty of shadow that brings things to view. To put peace and evil in the same verse has to mean that they interact in a similar way, otherwise why link them? We are educated in the realm of the Prince of the world Satan and, as such, are educated to an opposite understanding to that of God.
Proverbs 3:5 (ANIV)
Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding; The reason we are given this advice is because, as I say, we have had the wrong education. Take for instance our education regarding death, according to the education of the world, we are called to fear it, and go to any lengths to avoid it. It is the thing the world fears most of all, but according to God, it's not something to be feard, on the contrary, it's something to look forward to.
Eccles. 7:1 (ANIV)
A good name is better than fine perfume,
and the day of death better than the day of birth. I, as a Christian, have learned not to trust my own understanding, I am told we will not be given more trial than we can deal with;
1 Cor. 10:13 (ANIV)
No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.
__________________
'Needs be we disagree that the truth may manifest'

[Jay Dub]

2. Since God is omnisicient, He has complete knowledge of everything in the universe, including evil and suffering. He also knows how to stop it.

The truth is the world will never be happy with our God. When he stops evil the world say"s what kind of God would kill a whole race of people?

Did he not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. He also destroyed all on the earth but 7. He told the Jews to completely destroy these people

Duet 20:17Completely destroy* them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.

Then they say how could a God of love destroy all these people?

God allowed evil to come into this world, so that we could see how weak we are and how much we need him. To give us the opportunity to chose the light and leave the darkness

[Lily]

When he stops evil the world say"s what kind of God would kill a whole race of people?

Did he not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. He also destroyed all on the earth but 7. He told the Jews to completely destroy these people

I suppose Jay Dub, those critics might view it as God stopping evil but " with " an evil act. You know, kind of like a contradiction. I don't view it that way, just trying to preempt their reasoning in seeing it that way. You know, like two wrongs don't make a right kind of attitude.

[Chuckt]

The argument goes, if God is good then why does He permit evil in the world?

The human race has been infected by sin and if God was to get rid of all the evil in the world then He would have to get rid of you and I because I've hurt people and I've made mistakes.

But then the same people who think that God is good don't think that God will do anything about the evil and God has a plan to do away with evil. The question is what are we going to do about ourselves?

Luke 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

Luke 13:1 ¶ There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
Luke 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luke 13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
Luke 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.