Corporal punishment

[smellycat]

Did I say you could cover everyone with what I found to be effective ? Or did I just say what worked for me ?

your just a nother.nothing personal.

[streetsinger]

That wasn't what I meant Trev. I meant Parents who, and I know many from the estate I live on, don't even know where their children are, let alone what they are up to. One family on this estate have children running riot while they are in the pub. So for them it's not a matter of not being able to chastise, there is no chastisment to begin with. As long as it doesn't interfere with their drinking time, they don't care where they are or what they are doing. I meant if we make them responsible if their child gets into trouble, ( fine them, prosecute them, I don't know, just make them face the consequences also ) then maybe they would take more of an interest in where their children were and what they were doing.

I do take your point Lily. Fortunately, we in Alston don't have that particular problem, it's only a small town and very remote so everyone knows everyone. Our problem is more that of snobbery where the more well off tend to frown upon the less well off. the kids are more or less well behaved and the scallywags are few on the ground. There are, of course, a couple of families with skeletons but as the skeletons are of the past people tend to be kindly and don't mention it, also the families in question, because of this, have had to harden themselves to survive and are not to be trifled with. I'm fortunate in being the local entertainer and, as such, seen to hold a favoured position. Going back to your point, I believe that some families are so far gone that no amount of fining will do any good, in fact they probably won't have the money to pay the fine. We live in trying times, far better society deals with these children and lets then know that their behaviour is unacceptable. Give em a whack!!

[smellycat]

far better society deals with these children and lets then know that their behaviour is unacceptable. Give em a whack!!


that just causes deaths.they need to find Jesus.

[Lily]

I believe it was literal also,

I didn't mean that I thought Streetsingers interpretation was wrong Jay Dub. I just brought up the point about how the usage of certain words over the years have changed and sometimes we have to take that into consideration.

The Bible has many instances in it where something isn't meant in the literal way such as,, ( and I say this toungue in cheek, I don't mean any flippant intention ) where Jesus said, I am the vine, didn't mean he was saying, I am a grape. ( tongue in cheek, tounge in cheek )

If thats what you and Streetsinger believe, then you are perfectly entitled to believe that. I think we all agree that children should be chastised, and I am not saying that Parents aren't allowed to smack ( within reason ) I just don't agree on the interpretation of the word rod.

[Lily]

I believe that some families are so far gone that no amount of fining will do any good, in fact they probably won't have the money to pay the fine.

This particular family seem to find plenty of drinking money

[streetsinger]

This particular family seem to find plenty of drinking money

Your right Lily, it's a drag, but if you have a top then it stands to reason there has to be a bottom, which is inevitable, though sad. even though our town is virtually free of crime, there are those who play the system, men who have never worked and sit at their computers all day Hey, I am retired. these men however are young and active and should be made to earn their income like everyone else, even if that income is benefits. It's laws like this that may influence the young as they see their fathers, uncles and such gain dignity and become valuable members of society.

[Lily]

You know Trev, when I did youth club many moons ago at a local church, this one young lad from this family I mention would always hang around and the other leaders would just assume he was there to cause trouble. They had never even bothered to go out and try and talk to him.
I did one night and I invited him in. Ok, I kept an eagle eye on him but I tried to involve him. Within a month of coming to club every Friday, he asked could he come to church. I got to know this kid slowly and his heart wasn't bad you know. He'd just never had any discipline or guidance.
He came to church about 2 Sundays running and then on the third Sunday, the church warden who had been on holiday for this kids first 2 Sundays, saw him there, came up to us and said,, " And just what is this lout doing here ! "
He went and never came back Trev

I would very often see him about the estate and try and persuade him to come back but he never did.
As I say, his heart wasn't bad, he had been made bad by how others had treated him and I reckon, with the right treatment, that boy would have changed. Last I heard that young lad was in prison

[streetsinger]

You know Trev, when I did youth club many moons ago at a local church, this one young lad from this family I mention would always hang around and the other leaders would just assume he was there to cause trouble. They had never even bothered to go out and try and talk to him.
I did one night and I invited him in. Ok, I kept an eagle eye on him but I tried to involve him. Within a month of coming to club every Friday, he asked could he come to church. I got to know this kid slowly and his heart wasn't bad you know. He'd just never had any discipline or guidance.
He came to church about 2 Sundays running and then on the third Sunday, the church warden who had been on holiday for this kids first 2 Sundays, saw him there, came up to us and said,, " And just what is this lout doing here ! "
He went and never came back Trev

I would very often see him about the estate and try and persuade him to come back but he never did.
As I say, his heart wasn't bad, he had been made bad by how others had treated him and I reckon, with the right treatment, that boy would have changed. Last I heard that young lad was in prison

I would have left the Church with him and shaken the dust from my feet.

[Lily]

I did leave that church sometime later. Never been back. Also refused to run the club any longer. It closed down not long after. The club not the church.

[Galaen]

Should we bring back corporal punishment? In my veiw it is a big yes. There is no discipline anywhere in our country these days. Parents can's discipline their children, schools can't discipline, the police are now a service and not a force anymore, people in prison must have all the luxury they want or they are crying about human rights etc etc etc. I think I have already said in another thread somewhere, the Isle of Man had no trouble (or very little) till the abolished corporal punishment - now they are as bad as the rest of the country. I know there is a lot of violence in the world but sometimes a deterent is needed and at the moment I do not think we have a big enough deterent. Prison obviously does not work in it's present state or people would not keep re-offending but once they have had a taste of something which hurts it usually puts a stop to it.

Children learn through discipline but what degree of discipline will vary from child to child. Some will learn by being spoken to others will need a short sharp slap. No child should ever under any circumstances be beaten but a slap on the legs sometimes works wonders, but hey, if you can get the same results from talking to your child then all well and good.

In short, I think the whole country (in general) is short of discipline - in whatever form it comes.