Why Greek?

[Richard_1]

DeaconDa n wrote

Looking at your sources, it seems Jews are a male-only race of Palestinians

No what it proves is that your statement that there is no DNA evidence that there is a Jewish race is false showing that your statements about there being no Jewish race are false.

DeacoDan wrote

The Bible provides Joseph's and Mary's genealogy to prove they are Jews. God did not supply those genealogies through miraculous inspiration. Those were from Jewish records, records that were destroyed when God had the Romans destroy Jerusalem in 70AD. Why would God let/have those records destroyed?

This is a clear indication that you are a proponent of the doctrinal stand of preterism. That is a doctrinal statement that holds that most or all of the biblical prophecies concerning the End Times refer to events which have already happened in the first century after Christ's birth. Because of its claims that Ancient Israel was supplanted by the Christian church at the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, Preterism has sometimes been identified as replacement theology.

So why is it that you want to eliminate the Jews in your theology?

[DeaconDan]

No what it proves is that your statement that there is no DNA evidence that there is a Jewish race is false showing that your statements about there being no Jewish race are false.

Not one of your sources claim that any Jew's DNA can be distinguished from non-Jewish genetic heritage. This in spite of trying as hard as possible to contrive a case for a genetic Jewish people. The best they can claim is that many male Jews have y-chromosome DNA similar to Arab DNA (any common ancestor to even half of the Jewish population would predate Abraham, let alone Jacob).

No Jew in the world today has any reliable reason to believe himself to be the descendant of Jacob. This is not an really issue to Jews or me because we understand being a Jew is not really about race. But, it is an issue to you, one that you refuse to directly address, even though your theology is based on the belief that someone waving the pagan hex-agram, cursing Jesus, and defecating on the Law of Moses, is a descendant of Abraham through Jacob.

This is a clear indication that you are a proponent of the doctrinal stand of preterism.

You wish to label and then dismiss what I am saying.

So why is it that you want to eliminate the Jews in your theology?

Because the Bible and my faith are about Jesus, not Jews.

Why do you ignore the verses I quote proving Christians are the heirs of those promises? What about the Arab people's claim to the Promises of God made to Abraham?

[Richard_1]

DeaconDan wrote

Not one of your sources claim that any Jew's DNA can be distinguished from non-Jewish genetic heritage.

But this does

Haplotypes constructed from Y-chromosome markers were used to trace the paternal origins of the Jewish Diaspora. A set of 18 biallelic polymorphisms was genotyped in 1,371 males from 29 populations, including 7 Jewish (Ashkenazi, Roman, North African, Kurdish, Near Eastern, Yemenite, and Ethiopian) and 16 non-Jewish groups from similar geographic locations. The Jewish populations were characterized by a diverse set of 13 haplotypes that were also present in non-Jewish populations from Africa, Asia, and Europe. A series of analyses was performed to address whether modern Jewish Y-chromosome diversity derives mainly from a common Middle Eastern source population or from admixture with neighboring non-Jewish populations during and after the Diaspora. Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level.

What we have is your continual insistence that the Jewish race doesn’t exist. We have your doctrinal insistence that the Jews are just the Church and don’t exist in Gods eschatological plans for the end of time. You have eliminated the nation of Israel from the end of time.


Why do you want to replace Israel with the Church in Biblical Prophecy . Why is it that you have to post anti-Jewish articles to defame the people of God.

[DeaconDan]

But this does

You need to read more carefully. "The Jewish populations were characterized by a diverse set of 13 haplotypes that were also present in non-Jewish populations from Africa, Asia, and Europe." Jacob had only one haplotype (by definition). Yet, your article says the Jewish population is characterize by a "diverse set of 13 haplotypes". The case for the Jewish race is demolished by this one fact from your article.

Not one of your sources claim anyone can be identified as a member of the Jewish race by DNA. Why do you quote things that do no support you and pretend that they do?

Why do you want to replace Israel with the Church in Biblical Prophecy . Why is it that you have to post anti-Jewish articles to defame the people of God.

That is where your argument begins and ends, anyone who disagrees with you is antisemetic. Better that than antichristian.

Galatians 3:16
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.


John 8:42-43
Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.

Christians are the people of God.

[Richard_1]

DeaconDan wrote

Not one of your sources claim anyone can be identified as a member of the Jewish race by DNA. Why do you quote things that do no support you and pretend that they do?

Yet the article says this and you refuse to see it

Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level.

This most certainly speaks of racial ethnicity.

You make a statement about haplotypes without understanding what a haplotype is

haplotype--- a group of alleles of different genes (as of the major histocompatibility complex) on a single chromosome that are closely enough linked to be inherited usually as a unit

So when it says 13 haplotypes it means that there are 13 absolute similarities. When you say that a descendent of Jacob would have only one haplotype is completely wrong because a direct descendent would have multiple haplotypes

You practice replacement theology and it skewers your eschatological understanding of prophecy that clearly shows that God will turn His purpose again to the Jews in the last days. You most certainly boast against the branches and fulfill this scripture

Romans 11:13 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

[DeaconDan]

Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level.

This most certainly speaks of racial ethnicity.

The rest of that thought is "Most MALE Jewish populations were not significantly different one one another, OR ARABS, at a genetic level." Your race of Jews are nothing but a race of male Palestinians (actually, not even that). Repeat that to yourself a few times so I do not have to do it yet again. None of them, not a one, can be identified as a Jew by DNA (not even as an Arab).

So when it says 13 haplotypes it means that there are 13 absolute similarities. When you say that a descendent of Jacob would have only one haplotype is completely wrong because a direct descendent would have multiple haplotypes

You have that backwards. This is a simplification, but a hapotype is a unique set of genes (for our purposes, the alleles of the non-recombinant portion of the y-chromosome). You do not have two sets of genes. 13 haplotypes is 13 different sets of genes, which requires a minimum of 13 people. Jacob is one person.

When your references say the Jewish populations resemble Arab populations, they mean that hapotypes of Jewish populations resemble the frequencies of hapotypes among Arab populations, but people of any nationality can be found with these hapotypes.

You practice replacement theology and it skewers your eschatological understanding of prophecy that clearly shows that God will turn His purpose again to the Jews in the last days. You most certainly boast against the branches and fulfill this scripture

Your attempted use of Romans (boast against the branches) is just wrong. You refuse to admit the clear truth that Christians are the only branches attached and the comment about not boasting is not because those other branches mean anything (if they do not turn to Christ, they will be thrown in the fire), but because we have nothing to boast about, our salvation comes from God not ourselves. This is not what I say, this is what God says (Paul explains his comment so I do not have to guess).

WHY DO YOU REFUSE TO RESPOND TO THE BIBLE VERSES I QUOTE? Or, have you ripped these pages out of your Bible? The Promise to Abraham is not to Jews, but to Christians.

Who is of the Synagogue of Satan that Jesus speaks about in Rev. 1?

[Richard_1]

There will be that day that will come that the Jews will recognize that Jesus is the Messiah. That is a work that God is going to do in bringing the knowledge to these people. This is spoken of in Zechariah

Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

The scriptures also speak of the time all Israel will be saved

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

But by your doctrine this could never happen because to you there is no actual people called Jews

Your race of Jews are nothing but a race of male Palestinians (actually, not even that). Repeat that to yourself a few times so I do not have to do it yet again. None of them, not a one, can be identified as a Jew by DNA (not even as an Arab).

Yet in scripture God has always identified the fact of a Hebrews/Jewish race. God does not identify the Hebrew/Jewish race as Palestinians. I believe that God has blinded their (Jews) eyes until the fullness of the gentiles has come in. And so the day will come when they will acknowledge that Jesus is the Messiah and I pray and long for that day. I hope for that day. As it says in the scriptures

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

DeaconDan wrote

Your attempted use of Romans (boast against the branches) is just wrong.

There are those who would boast themselves against the natural branches, "God's cut them off, God is through with them; we are now the people." And he (Paul) says, "Wait a minute, you are a wild olive branch and you have been grafted into the vine or into the tree, contrary to nature. And they were broken off because of their unbelief, and you are only standing by faith, so don't be so high-minded." The time is coming that God will again graft the natural branches back in the tree.


Definition of haplotype :
A haplotype, a contraction of the phrase "haploid genotype", is a set of closely linked genetic markers present on one chromosome which tend to be inherited together (not easily separable by recombination).

An allele is the sequence of nucleotides on a DNA molecule that constitutes the form of a gene at a specific spot or a chromosome.

[DeaconDan]

There will be that day that will come that the Jews will recognize that Jesus is the Messiah. That is a work that God is going to do in bringing the knowledge to these people. This is spoken of in Zechariah

I see mention of Judea (not a place called Israel) being attacked in Zechariah 12. I see talk of horses and tents. These do not reflect the modern era. The only reason you would place this in the future (other than the assumption from ignorance, that because one is unaware of fulfillment that it must be as yet unfulfilled) is the assumption that "they shall look upon me whom they have pierced" to mean the Jews will mourn over Jesus whom they killed. At any other time, Zionists would deny that Jews (corporately) are to blame for killing Jesus. Which way is it?

The scriptures also speak of the time all Israel will be saved

When you first brought this up in this thread, I pointed out that Paul says the same of all men (Rom11:32). Paul again is being consolatory and is addressing the question of if Israel is beyond salvation, Rom11:11. There remains the question of who Paul means by "Israel". My view that he means the pre-messianic Christians, like Saul, who earnestly sought God (Rom11:7) but had not accepted the Messiah. (additionally, the word translated to "all" usually does not mean "all".)

Yet in scripture God has always identified the fact of a Hebrews/Jewish race. God does not identify the Hebrew/Jewish race as Palestinians.

The Bible does identify Palestinians and Arabs as Hebrews. But, when we say Hebrews, we mean descendants of Jacob (who is also a Hebrew). The Bible generally does not equate Hebrews with Jews. Both the Old and New Testaments (up until Pentecost, when true Jews soon were called Christians) there are references to people becoming Jews (how does this fit with your belief that Jews are a race?). There are no references to anyone becoming a Hebrew.

I believe that God has blinded their (Jews) eyes until the fullness of the gentiles has come in. And so the day will come when they will acknowledge that Jesus is the Messiah and I pray and long for that day. I hope for that day. As it says in the scriptures

Are you following biblical instructions, or is this your own conclusion?

There are those who would boast themselves against the natural branches, "God's cut them off, God is through with them; we are now the people." And he (Paul) says, "Wait a minute, you are a wild olive branch and you have been grafted into the vine or into the tree, contrary to nature. And they were broken off because of their unbelief, and you are only standing by faith, so don't be so high-minded." The time is coming that God will again graft the natural branches back in the tree.

You say "God will again graft the natural branches back in". The Bible says, "If they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in." Notice the difference?

Paul does not say do not boast because you are only standing by faith. Paul says do not boast because you do not support the root, but the root supports you. We should not boast because it is not our accomplishment.

Definition of haplotype :
A haplotype, a contraction of the phrase "haploid genotype", is a set of closely linked genetic markers present on one chromosome which tend to be inherited together (not easily separable by recombination).

An allele is the sequence of nucleotides on a DNA molecule that constitutes the form of a gene at a specific spot or a chromosome.

That means what do you?

Now, what do you have to say for the Bible saying that the Promise to Abraham was to his seed, Jesus, not Jews?

[Richard_1]

DeaconDan wrote

I see mention of Judea (not a place called Israel) being attacked in Zechariah 12.

So then tell me why in Zechariah 12:10 it mentions the house of David. The house of David was the unified Israel. The spilt of Israel and Judah did not occur under the rule of David. But lets look further in scripture and see Gods plan for Israel. You would have there be no Israel but just the Church yet the Church could not fulfill these prophecies

Deuteronomy 4:27-28 And the LORD shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead you. And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.

This was the prophecy of the Diaspora, which has taken place and could not be the Church because the Church was never sent into exile to serve other gods or idols.

Deuteronomy 4:30-31 When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice; (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

The people being spoken to here by God was Israel not the Church and you can see that God promises He will not forsake nor forget His promise with Israel but under your doctrine Israel is forgotten and forsaken because you have replaced Israel with the Church.

Here in Jeremiah 30:3 we have another promise of the return of natural Israel

For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.

And here in Isaiah 11:11-12 we have further prophecy of the return of Israel in the last days

And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

But this prophecy would not be possible under your doctrine because in your doctrine the Church has replaced Israel. But Joel 3:1 is quite clear whom it is that God restores in the last days

For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations (diasporia), and parted my land.

In Hosea and Jeremiah God Identifies Israel as figs and then in Mathew 24:32-33 Jesus says this about Israel when He speaks again of the fig tree

Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

And what were the things that Jesus said “When ye see all these things”. They were the prophecies of what would happen to Israel in the last days. Here in Ezekiel 28:25 we have further prophecy from God about natural Israel being restored

Thus saith the Lord GOD; When I shall have gathered the house of Israel from the people among whom they are scattered, and shall be sanctified in them in the sight of the heathen, then shall they dwell in their land that I have given to my servant Jacob.

DeaconDan wrote

The Bible does identify Palestinians and Arabs as Hebrews.

No it doesn’t in fact the Arabs (Ishmaels descendents) were distinctly called the children of the bondwoman while the descendants of Isaac were of the freewoman. The Hebrews were of the descendents of Isaac and Jacob not Ishmael (Arabs).

DeaconDan wrote

The Bible generally does not equate Hebrews with Jews.

Yet that is exactly what the scriptures do in Jeremiah 34:9

That every man should let his manservant, and every man his maidservant, being an Hebrew or an Hebrewess, go free; that none should serve himself of them, to wit, of a Jew his brother.

I wrote

I believe that God has blinded their (Jews) eyes until the fullness of the gentiles has come in. And so the day will come when they will acknowledge that Jesus is the Messiah

DeaconDan wrote

Are you following biblical instructions, or is this your own conclusion?

The scriptures say this

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Romans 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Romans 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

DeaconDan wrote

Now, what do you have to say for the Bible saying that the Promise to Abraham was to his seed, Jesus, not Jews?

What I say is that you are focusing on only one of the promises left to Abraham. You see there were actually three promises to Abraham

In this communication from God to Abram, we discover three distinctive promises and we may refer to the three as - the land promise, the national promise and the spiritual promise.

1. The Land Promise: "A land that I will show you."

2. The National Promise: "A great nation."

3. The Spiritual Promise: "All the families of the earth shall be blessed."

All of which are contained in Genesis 12:1-3

Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee (land of promise): And I will make of thee a great nation, (a great nation promise) and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed (spiritual promise).

[smellycat]

the bride is the followers of Jesus.how can you be the bride if you deny the bridegroom.?

we are told to not mix the wine.you seem to be sloshing wine all over the place richard.?


are you jewish.?