revelation study who does the anti christ make war with

[Jay Dub]

Revelation 13:7-10

Verse 7-9

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

Here we have the Antichrist rising up and making war against the saints of God and prevailing/overcoming them. This is a problem for those who would teach that the Church goes through the tribulation (post trib). The problem is that Jesus said this of the Church


Quote:
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Here Jesus says that the Church that He builds will not be overcome/prevail over it. The word for prevail here is the word katischyÅ which means

Quote:
1) to be strong to another's detriment, to prevail against

2) to be superior in strength

3) to overcome

4) to prevail

I don't agree with your conclusion. First if I die for Christ, Satan does not prevail, I have prevailed and Christ has prevailed. To die for our Lord is not defeat. Did Satan win when the apostles were killed

When Jesus was in the garden and he prayed for our Father to protect them and all who believe. Was that prayer for our physical safety? Did the apostles all die at the hands of evil men? Yes all but John. Did Jesus prayer fall short? No
The gates of hell prevailing does not speak of our physical bodies. No one will snatch us out of his hand. This is where the gates of hell will not prevail.

The book is written our names are in it and nothing Satan can do, can change that.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
He made war with the saints and over came them.
power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. this speaks of the world not Israel

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
all on the earth will worship him , BUT not those who's names are written in the book of life, you see the Church is still here

[Jay Dub]

Rev 13
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

Here we have the Antichrist rising up and making war against the saints of God and prevailing/overcoming them. This is a problem for those who would teach that the Church goes through the tribulation (post trib). The problem is that Jesus said this of the Church

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Here Jesus says that the Church that He builds will not be overcome/prevail over it. The word for prevail here is the word katischyÅ which means

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Revelation 12 lets us know that we overcome him by the blood of the lamb even unto death. our death does not mean he prevails

[smellycat]

for satan to prevail he would have control of you.
God keeps him away from us.
that is what we ask in prayer.

[Chuckt]

Cat, Saints is a term used before the Church existed so it is referring to the Jews because I believe in the rapture and I don't believe the true believers will be subject to wrath.

Deuteronomy 33:3 Yea, he loved the people; all his saints [are] in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; [every one] shall receive of thy words.

Who were the saints in the Old Testament?

[Jay Dub]

Cat, Saints is a term used before the Church existed so it is referring to the Jews because I believe in the rapture and
Deuteronomy 33:3 Yea, he loved the people; all his saints [are] in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; [every one] shall receive of thy words.

Who were the saints in the Old Testament?

The term saint , to me is referring to Gods people, in the old testament we see it as the Jews, but after calvary the word saint refer to those who are in Christ. The people of God

Rom 1:7 To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Cr 6:2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases?

Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus:

I don't believe the true believers will be subject to wrath.

I agree the true believer won't be subject to the wrath of God

[Onesiphorus]

Dear cat ,,saint is all christian believers , Paul uses the term we should use it in scriptures such as Ephesians 3:18 and Colossians 1:4 , and has no connection with Roman Catholicism,s definition whatsoever , the word just means separate

[Chuckt]

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
all on the earth will worship him , BUT not those who's names are written in the book of life, you see the Church is still here

The Church is not here because they are not written in the lamb's book of life.

I debated this with Pastor Larry on my board and he left.

[Jay Dub]

Originally Posted by Jay Dub

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
all on the earth will worship him , BUT not those who's names are written in the book of life, you see the Church is still here

The Church is not here because they are not written in the lamb's book of life.

I debated this with Pastor Larry on my board and he left.

I am not sure what you are saying, but to me the verse reads like this

Everyone on earth will worship the beast, except those who's name are written in the book of life.

I believe this to be speaking of believers, the Church, but I understand that, people can say no these are those who have given their life to Christ after the rapture

I think the verse is saying there are two kinds of people on the earth, Those who worship God and those who worship the beast. There is no middle ground

Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

[Chuckt]

I am not sure what you are saying, but to me the verse reads like this

Everyone on earth will worship the beast, except those who's name are written in the book of life.

I believe this to be speaking of believers, the Church, but I understand that, people can say no these are those who have given their life to Christ after the rapture

I think the verse is saying there are two kinds of people on the earth, Those who worship God and those who worship the beast. There is no middle ground

Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

The exception may be the contrast "them that dwell in heaven".

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

8. all that dwell upon the earth-being of earth earthy; in contrast to "them that dwell in heaven."

[Jay Dub]

The exception may be the contrast "them that dwell in heaven".

I don't believe that would be a proper contrast

Everyone on earth will worship the beast, except those who's name are written in the book of life.

If the word earth was not used, then I would agree that what you are saying is possible